Official Dream Theater studio albums countdown thread! (number 1 revealed!)

[nick_z]

Octavarium - I ranked it at #8

This is an interesting one, after the heavier Train of Thought. I always enjoyed it, although I can't say it ever "wowed" me. The middle-of-the-pack ranking reflects this. In fact, I could've ranked it a little lower too.

Plenty of influences on this one - some of them from the poppier end of the rock spectrum. Muse of course looms large...btw, I wasn't really following MP/DT's board at the time, so I wasn't aware of his appreciation of the band. But I was a fan of Muse's first three albums myself, and it was hard not to see the influence here  The riff in Never Enough, for sure, but then JLB's vocal effects in Panic Attack, and the pre-chorus in These Walls too...

Regardless, it's a fun and colorful album. The title-track is great, although it doesn't quite reach the pantheon of the greatest DT songs for me. It's perhaps a little to gimmicky at times, if that makes any sense. My favorite on the album might well be These Walls. It's such a well-constructed song, and JP's solo always felt very Steve Rothery to me. Also a big fan of I Walk Beside You. NOT a fan of The Answer Lies Within.

15. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
14. Systematic Chaos
13. The Astonishing
12.
11.  Distance Over Time
10.  A View From The Top Of The World
9.
8.  Octavarium
7.  Dream Theater
6.
5. Train of Thought
4. Falling Into Infinity
3. When Dream and Day Unite   
2.   
1.   

[KevShmev]

Note: I will not be doing an album tomorrow.

I will resume on Monday with the start of the top 5, with number 1 being listed on Friday.

[Mladen]

I am actually surprised Octavarium ended up at number six. I thought Train of thought and even A View would surpass it.

[SeRoX]

1-
2-
3-
4-
5- The Astonishing
6- Falling into Infinity
7- A View from the Top of the World
8- When Dream and Day Unite
9- Octavarium
10- Train of Thought
11-
12- Systematic Chaos
13- Distance over Time
14- Dream Theater
15- Black Clouds and Silver Linings


Octavarium itself is a masterpiece and it all alone shadows the rest in a good way. Because the rest is not that good but I enjoy time to time. I Walk Beside You is a great upbeat song since Surrounded. Sacrificed Sons and The Root Of All Evil are great concert songs.

Favourites
1-Octavarium
2- Sacrificed Sons
3- I Walk Beside You / TROAE

[wolfking]

Has this at number 6 myself.  What a great album and the title track is nothing short of a masterpiece.

[Animal]

Unlike Jammindude, I am actually delighted that Octavarium placed behind ADTOE. It is at least a partial consolation after that assault on everything I hold dear -  that is, Octavarium surpassing ToT. I ranked it at #10, mainly on the strength of the title track whose awesomeness I proclaim daily in front of the altar of metal Apollo. It is second only to ACOS among DT epics - and if it had been sung by 1995 JLB instead of 2005 JLB, it might have been n. 1.

About the rest of the album: I applaud the wisdom of anyone who liked it initially but doesn't think it aged that well because this is exactly how I feel about Octavarium. The songs range between "quite good" and "mostly ok", with one that I would describe as "mostly annoying" because Octavarium is an album where DT started to suck at ballads. While even before, their ballads would not be the songs everyone was talking about, they were well-written, tastefully executed and worked really well within albums they were a part of. Some of them were actually so good that they would invite an imprudent guitarist/singer to pick up a guitar and try to play them for the joy of his and his friends (and fail due to his inability to sing JLB's lines in any way that wouldn't make his voice crack in the most embarrassing manner).

With Answer Lies Within, everything changed. John Petrucci, once a good lyricist, decided that he wanted to be remembered for his music only and started writing terrible lyrics on a rather regular basis (TALW lyrics are so bad that they can pass even through my non-native speaker filter, which normally allows me to ignore lyrics completely). Ballads started to feel forced.  Most of those that came later would be better than TALW but still a far cry from the likes of Another Day, Wait for Sleep, Silent Man, TSCO or Disappear. At least, there was no longer a risk for an imprudent singer/guitarist because these newer ballads a)wouldn't make his voice crack in an embarrassing manner and b) he probably would never feel the urge to play them anyway.

[Ben_Jamin]

#06 - Octavarium (My Ranking: #03)

The brand new Dream Theater album that was just released right before I really started listening to the band. My friend couldn't stop talking about it, and I had just seen the band at Gigantour, not knowing I heard some songs from it. I bought the album and ended up really enjoying the theme.

It's ranked high because I love conceptual albums, especially those that tell a narrative story, and the themes this album involves are deeply intriguing. I just love all the nuggety goodness of this album. The use of the musical key, and each song being written in that key is very fitting of the album name. The symbolizing of the numbers 3,5, and 8 were a big joke with me and my friends in High School and we still joke about it when we see those numbers and say..."OMG...OCTAVARIUM...AHHH!!!" (the ahh is a joke to our math teacher).

The theme expands more for me though, as I consider the Octavarium to be the cycle of life. All the songs have a theme about wanting to live life, understanding life, and the struggles of life. All these things that happen within the Octavarium. Octavarium represents the life cycle of a human. When we are born we humans need dependency on another, we gain independence, yet when we grow old, we then again need that dependence which completes the cycle of "This story ends where it began". This is why for me the main theme and concept is all summed up with the title-track by going through each octave until it climaxes at "Trapped Inside This Octavarium". It's best said with the lyrics, "Step after step we try controlling our fate, but when we finally start living it's become to late."

Even the musical, influential references of other bands songs are a part of what the Octavarium is. How music is all related and cycles across many songs from many bands, an explanation for why some songs sound similar to one another. I feel that is best explained in the Full Circle section of Octavarium with all the references MP gives with his lyrics here.

This is one album I will always enjoy and I love the themes from it. One day, I hope, I will get to finally see the title-track live.


Favorite: These Walls
Least: The Answer Lies Within

[Ben_Jamin]

This is how my list looks based on what was revealed. I felt now is a good time to post one since Kev is taking a break tomorrow.

15. When Dream And Day Unite
14. Falling Into Infinity
13. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
12.
11. Dream Theater
10. Train of Thought
9. Systematic Chaos
8. Distance Over Time
7.
6.
5. A View From The Top Of The World
4.
3. Octavarium
2. The Astonishing
1.

[DragonAttack]

Octavarium #1

My second 'new' album as a fan. Tracks 1-7 work terrifically for me as an album, the title track as a nice bonus, with 'The Razor's Edge' as such a monster finish, especially the 'Score' version.

[The Realm]

Octavarium - number 7 for me. This is a very listenable album, while I don't love every track I do return to this album every so often and enjoy it from start to finish.

[TAC]

Pretty decent compilation of the Fan Club Romavarium & Documentary, MP's Drummavarium, and the Score Doc talking about 8V.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4evOe7jiqjg

[Shalev Amir]

Octavarium was #11. I really don't like Sacrificed Sons, and most of the other songs are just not that exciting to me. The title track however is one of my favourite songs of all time.

[pg1067]

06. Octavarium

...

Number 1 finishes: 2
Last place finishes: 0
Average finish: 7.5

My rankings:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Octavarium
6. Train of Thought
7. Dream Theater
8.
9. When Dream and Day Unite
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11. Distance over Time
12. Falling Into Infinity
13. A View from the Top of the World
14. Systematic Chaos
15. The Astonishing


Sometimes I think Octavarium is overlooked because the title track gets all the attention, but it's an incredible album.  Root is the best of the 12SS songs.  I know The Answer Lies Within gets criticized, but I think it's an excellent song.  These Walls is solid.  Panic Attack and Sacrificed Sons are excellent, and the title track is over all amazing.  The only ruts are I Walk Beside You (really don't like the chorus), Never Enough (MP whining) and the intro to Octavarium.  It's a waste of the 3+ minutes (and it's even worse live).  The tour was excellent also.  VERY surprised that ADTOE will finish higher than 8VM.

Also, I don't get the love for "Surrounded '07."  They basically took a near perfect, concise song and turned it into a pointlessly extended wankfest with some weird lyrics at the end.

This is Sugar Mice by Marillion.

WTF is a sugar mouse?

[TAC]

[jammindude]

Seriously pg....if you love beautiful anthemic prog power ballads, check out Sugar Mice.

It is Marillion's TSCO. (And personally I think it's better than TSCO)

"So if you want my address
It's number one at the end of the bar
Where we sit with the broken angels
Clutching at straws and nursing our scars..."

Bloody brilliant.

[KevShmev]

Unlike Jammindude, I am actually delighted that Octavarium placed behind ADTOE. It is at least a partial consolation after that assault on everything I hold dear -  that is, Octavarium surpassing ToT. I ranked it at #10, mainly on the strength of the title track whose awesomeness I proclaim daily in front of the altar of metal Apollo. It is second only to ACOS among DT epics - and if it had been sung by 1995 JLB instead of 2005 JLB, it might have been n. 1.

About the rest of the album: I applaud the wisdom of anyone who liked it initially but doesn't think it aged that well because this is exactly how I feel about Octavarium. The songs range between "quite good" and "mostly ok", with one that I would describe as "mostly annoying" because Octavarium is an album where DT started to suck at ballads. While even before, their ballads would not be the songs everyone was talking about, they were well-written, tastefully executed and worked really well within albums they were a part of. Some of them were actually so good that they would invite an imprudent guitarist/singer to pick up a guitar and try to play them for the joy of his and his friends (and fail due to his inability to sing JLB's lines in any way that wouldn't make his voice crack in the most embarrassing manner).

With Answer Lies Within, everything changed. John Petrucci, once a good lyricist, decided that he wanted to be remembered for his music only and started writing terrible lyrics on a rather regular basis (TALW lyrics are so bad that they can pass even through my non-native speaker filter, which normally allows me to ignore lyrics completely). Ballads started to feel forced.  Most of those that came later would be better than TALW but still a far cry from the likes of Another Day, Wait for Sleep, Silent Man, TSCO or Disappear. At least, there was no longer a risk for an imprudent singer/guitarist because these newer ballads a)wouldn't make his voice crack in an embarrassing manner and b) he probably would never feel the urge to play them anyway.

Damn, that was harsh.  The Answer Lies Within is not one of my favorites, but I can enjoy it for the most part because the music is nice.  The lyrics are definitely not good, I agree with that.

I would argue that this 8V is the album where their lyrics took a tumble overall.  Their lyrics, most of the time, ranged from good to very good, with the occasional great (Voices, Learning to Live, etc.), on the first seven albums, but most of the ones on 8V are pretty mediocre, and while they have had a few good ones since, they have never really gotten back to being a band that consistently writes good lyrics, and I reckon most of the blame for that goes to Petrucci since he writes the most.  Even the best lyric writers have their bad moments, but it is a wonder how a guy like Petrucci went from penning gems like Voices and Scarred to trite like The Answer Lies Within or balderdash like The Count of Tuscany.

[jammindude]

I have always said that TALW lyrics are the only "wart" on the entire album.

....but almost ANYTHING on SC makes TALW seem like a literary masterpiece.

[Cool Chris]

I totally remember buying this CD. I was at peak DT fandom, was pumped for a new release, popped it in, heard track 1, and thought "Yes, DT is still full steam ahead, let's go!" Then I heard Tracks 2-7 and thought "eh... what happened here?" Then Track 8 and thought "OMG how did they put so much awesomeness in to one song?

I grew to like Panic Attack, and have a generally favorable opinion of the album. I don't listen to it much, and it maybe should have done better on the Ranker.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Train of Thought
6. A View from the Top of the World
7. Systematic Chaos
8. Octavarium
9.
10. Dream Theater
11. The Astonishing
12. Distance Over Time
13. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
14. Falling into Infinity
15. When Dream And Day Unite

[javidt]

I ranked Octavarium #10.

When it was released I thought it was a good coming back to their classic sound after the TOT metal trip... but it aged very bad for me.

I enjoy de first half but everything gets weird after the Muse part of Panick Attack and Never Enough. Sacrificed Sons instrumental part sounds a bit disjointed and the Octavarium intro is too "Shine on..."

Maybe I've ranked it higher that it deserves because It's part of the classic cycle.

My ranking so far
15 Systematic Chaos
14 Black Clouds and Silver Linings
13 When Dream and Day Unite
12 Distance over Time
11 The Astonishing
10 Octavarium
09 Train of Thought
08 Falling into Infinity
07
06 Dream Theater
05 A View from the Top of the World
04
03
02
01

[nobloodyname]

WTF is a sugar mouse?

It's actually a piece of confectionary here in the UK that people often fondly remember from their childhood

As for Octavarium, I think that entire period of time was the best time to be a Dream Theater fan. We were so spoiled. That tour was just wonderful.

Never Enough gets a lot of negative attention but I've always loved it, partly because it contains what I think is the best unison run that DT ever wrote. Takes me back to the days of 8 bit computers with music vaguely reminiscent of the theme tune from Glider Rider (see: 1m 16s https://youtu.be/K1wKUuawRVg).

[Podaar]

#4 for me. Like most have said, the title track is just brilliant. The moog run that JR does in the middle never fails to deliver chills. I'm not sure about the vitriol I'm hearing about The Answer Lies Within. The music and melodies are fine. Sure the lyrics are preachy, but I've been ignoring that sort of thing my whole life. I just shrug and think, "Who asked you?" 

15   When Dream and Day Unite
14   Dream Theater
13   Black Clouds and Silver Linings
12   The Astonishing
11   Systematic Chaos
10   A View from the Top of the World
9   Distance Over Time
8   Falling Into Infinity
7   
6   
5    Train of Thought
4    Octavarium
3   
2   
1   

[TheCountOfNYC]

My love for this album is no secret, and even though I have it ranked second overall, it's the Dream Theater album I feel the strongest personal connection with. Panic Attack was actually the very first Dream Theater song I heard, and the sound resonated with me immediately. Every song on this album hits my emotions in different ways, and it's the one album that gets an emotional response out of me every time. And of course, even though I'm clearly not in the camp that thinks this album was "saved by the epic", the title track deserves a special mention, as I consider Octavarium to be the greatest song ever written, and it's certainly my favorite song of all time.

[nick_z]

Seriously pg....if you love beautiful anthemic prog power ballads, check out Sugar Mice.

It is Marillion's TSCO. (And personally I think it's better than TSCO)

"So if you want my address
It's number one at the end of the bar
Where we sit with the broken angels
Clutching at straws and nursing our scars..."

Bloody brilliant.

Yes, Sugar Mice is fantastic (as is Clutching at Straws in its entirety). Not a fan of TSCO, so that's easy for me - it's definitely better than that in my book (may I ask why you see it as Marillion's TSCO, though?)

[jammindude]

Seriously pg....if you love beautiful anthemic prog power ballads, check out Sugar Mice.

It is Marillion's TSCO. (And personally I think it's better than TSCO)

"So if you want my address
It's number one at the end of the bar
Where we sit with the broken angels
Clutching at straws and nursing our scars..."

Bloody brilliant.

Yes, Sugar Mice is fantastic (as is Clutching at Straws in its entirety). Not a fan of TSCO, so that's easy for me - it's definitely better than that in my book (may I ask why you see it as Marillion's TSCO, though?)

As I see it, it's their "signature, anthemic, crowd favorite, bring the house down" ballad.

[geeeemo]

Octavarium came in at 11.
It seems like it should be higher, but I just enjoy other albums as a whole better. I did listen to it again yesterday on my bike ride. The title track will always be the One. I really dig Root And SS as they were a couple of the first DT songs I heard and got me hooked on DT. (Aside from PMU all those many years ago). I like TALW, I played it for both my sons after they graduated and they both got emotional hearing. (Us moms love to connect that way ). I cried yesterday listening as one son isn't doing well. IWBY always makes me think of God and I like that as well.
The others songs are ok, just not as enjoyable for me as others.

[nick_z]

As I see it, it's their "signature, anthemic, crowd favorite, bring the house down" ballad.

Got it, makes sense.

Yeah, I never connected with TSCO...it feels like it's the one big DT fan-favorite where my taste diverges the most from the overall consensus.

[TAC]

Is today the day that Kev mentioned there'd be no update?

[devieira73]

Is today the day that Kev mentioned there'd be no update?

[Animal]

Unlike Jammindude, I am actually delighted that Octavarium placed behind ADTOE. It is at least a partial consolation after that assault on everything I hold dear -  that is, Octavarium surpassing ToT. I ranked it at #10, mainly on the strength of the title track whose awesomeness I proclaim daily in front of the altar of metal Apollo. It is second only to ACOS among DT epics - and if it had been sung by 1995 JLB instead of 2005 JLB, it might have been n. 1.

About the rest of the album: I applaud the wisdom of anyone who liked it initially but doesn't think it aged that well because this is exactly how I feel about Octavarium. The songs range between "quite good" and "mostly ok", with one that I would describe as "mostly annoying" because Octavarium is an album where DT started to suck at ballads. While even before, their ballads would not be the songs everyone was talking about, they were well-written, tastefully executed and worked really well within albums they were a part of. Some of them were actually so good that they would invite an imprudent guitarist/singer to pick up a guitar and try to play them for the joy of his and his friends (and fail due to his inability to sing JLB's lines in any way that wouldn't make his voice crack in the most embarrassing manner).

With Answer Lies Within, everything changed. John Petrucci, once a good lyricist, decided that he wanted to be remembered for his music only and started writing terrible lyrics on a rather regular basis (TALW lyrics are so bad that they can pass even through my non-native speaker filter, which normally allows me to ignore lyrics completely). Ballads started to feel forced.  Most of those that came later would be better than TALW but still a far cry from the likes of Another Day, Wait for Sleep, Silent Man, TSCO or Disappear. At least, there was no longer a risk for an imprudent singer/guitarist because these newer ballads a)wouldn't make his voice crack in an embarrassing manner and b) he probably would never feel the urge to play them anyway.

Damn, that was harsh.  The Answer Lies Within is not one of my favorites, but I can enjoy it for the most part because the music is nice.  The lyrics are definitely not good, I agree with that.

I would argue that this 8V is the album where their lyrics took a tumble overall.  Their lyrics, most of the time, ranged from good to very good, with the occasional great (Voices, Learning to Live, etc.), on the first seven albums, but most of the ones on 8V are pretty mediocre, and while they have had a few good ones since, they have never really gotten back to being a band that consistently writes good lyrics, and I reckon most of the blame for that goes to Petrucci since he writes the most.  Even the best lyric writers have their bad moments, but it is a wonder how a guy like Petrucci went from penning gems like Voices and Scarred to trite like The Answer Lies Within or balderdash like The Count of Tuscany.

It probably came off harsher than I intended. I am prone to hyperbole and sometimes like to practice that scathing tone in case I am ever offered to review music for money:)  The thing about ballads is that they often walk the tight rope - you add a bit too much of syrup and a good song becomes...less good (and everyone's mileage about how much syrup they like in their ballads will differ). I believe that one thing that pushes these newer ballads into "too much sugar" territory is JLB's increasing reliance on that soft, breathy tone. I realized that just today, when listening to SFAM - the SFAM ballads contain their fair share of sugar as well but for me, they never cross that line into the over the top zone. And I noticed JLB, in these older songs, sounds nowhere near as breathy as he does on later albums. I don't know why he got in this habit but it bugs me - he has one of the most naturally beautiful tenor voices I have ever heard and he routinely uses only a part of it.

Speaking of lyrics: I think you are right about 8VM being a breaking point in DT lyrics writing. If I were to guess, I would say they just stopped trying - the thing is, writing a good lyrics is a lot of work. Hard work. I speak from my own experience as I have written a fair number of lyrics when younger and I still translate lyrics on occasion. And even writer vastly superior to me would readily confirm what I am saying. Of course, if you become good at your craft, you can produce "something" pretty fast - but it is rarely gonna be any good.
   At the beginning, we can speculate that DT were not exactly secure about their lyrics writing skills and took a lot of extra effort to compensate for it. Plus Kevin Moore was always an artsy, introspective guy. He tended to write that kind of lyrics and maybe it was him who pushed Petrucci to bring his lyrical A game. (I actually thought Scarred was written by Moore - these lyrics are damn good - but it was Petrucci). Even Portnoy produced his probably best lyrics (ACOS) in that period - compare those to another highly personal lyrics of his - BOT. While ACOS lyrics are rich in imagery, BOT lyrics are very literal and straightforward. Basically, this is the same rule that applies to all writing - "Show, don't tell".
But, one again, showing is hard. As DT got more confident, and with Moore out and Portnoy (who was always to one with tendency toward most literal and descriptive lyrics) more active in lyrics department, they probably just started relying on their improved craft and they no longer had the motivation to push themselves as hard as before. They could get away with it as most fans cared about music only.
   That's what I think probably happened with regards to their lyrics.

[Animal]

Is today the day that Kev mentioned there'd be no update?

Maybe we could get at least some fun facts. Like margin by which n.1 beat number 2. Was it more like "Hallowed Be Thy Name" kind of margin? Or more like "Eyes of a Stranger" kind? Or how many 1st place finishes were taken by just the top 3 albums?

[pg1067]

Just listened to Sugar Mice.  It was fine.  The guy's got a nice voice.  I always meant to get into Marillion back when they opened for Rush, but I think the generally low quality of Rush's opening bands may have discouraged me.  As far as TSCO goes, it's my lowest ranked of the "real" songs on SFAM (i.e., excluding Regression and Through My Words).

[Dream Team]

A bit of catch-up.

A View is at number 8. It maybe could have been higher, as I played it (ok 2 songs) on the way to work, and I enjoyed it so much, as I do every time I listen to it. It has no skips. I hope they will play SG, and AtC live. IM gets a lot of dislike, but I really like that one as well. AtM has faded - even though its good and groovy and very enjoyable live - to the bottom spot on the album.


Train of Though is 14 for me. I had ItNoG very high for quite some time, but after a while, if feels like it drags a bit at the end. Unless your watching the Budokan version! .  With Endless Sacrifice I really got into it after I heard the live version on a LNF album, and I may like it more than ItNoG. Seeing it past tour was amazing! I listened to this entire album for the countdown and enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I like other instrumentals better, but like someone else said, Vacant, Stream and the ItNoG are a great run. I am not a fan of HTF, I don't relate. TDS I enjoyed, but it drags on for me. Some talk about DT wankery - I like it, but this album may be the one where it's a tad much for me.


15. When Dream and Day Unite
14  Train of Thought
13
12
11
10  Dream Theater
9    Distance Over Tim
8    A View
7   
6    Sytsematic Chaos
5    The Astonishing
4    FII
3   
2    BCSL
1

Distance Over Tim? What's going on between you and TAC? 

Octavarium: suffers from a "Powerslave" type problem for me - great beginning and end, but subpar meat of the sandwich. Actually I find the middle of Octavarium even less satisfying than than the middle of Powerslave. Outright boring at times. But boring doesn't equal bad and at least the title track has an absolutely fantastic beginning and end that I never tire of. Had the album at either 10 or 11 I believe.

[TAC]

WOW!

[KevShmev]

Hmmm, some fun facts today...

-The album that finished at number 1 did not get the most 1st place votes, but finishing in the top 5 of 59 of the 65 lists helped.
-The gap between number 4 and 5 is massive.
-None of the albums in the top 5 had a single last place finish.
-The top 4 albums had 56 of the 65 1st place votes.

[jammindude]

Just listened to Sugar Mice.  It was fine.  The guy's got a nice voice.  I always meant to get into Marillion back when they opened for Rush, but I think the generally low quality of Rush's opening bands may have discouraged me.  As far as TSCO goes, it's my lowest ranked of the "real" songs on SFAM (i.e., excluding Regression and Through My Words).

It's just important to understanding that Surrounded '07 is not necessarily "nonsense". It's very similar to what DT did with Peruvian Skies (infusing elements of Have a Cigar and Enter Sandman)