2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[Jamesman42]

I get scared when I see Justin Tucker coming on the field to win a game.

[King Postwhore]

He's deadly.   💯

[El Barto]

At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

Name a kicker guaranteed like Vinatieri?  No one. The nan's middle name is "Clutch."

Justin Tucker. They're both FBHoFers. I think Tucker's probably the better kicker over the long haul, but Vinatieri's had the opportunity to make so many clutch kicks, earning him 3 rings.. I've got my favourite, but I'm not prepared to call one of them better than the other.

[King Postwhore]

Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?

[hunnus2000]

Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?

Not trying to be a "know it all nanny" but it was Garo not Gary....

[King Postwhore]

Oops, yes!  He's the only kicker I can think of thst got in. 

Oh, and Morten Anderson.

[El Barto]

Garo never got in. The one thing he's famous for is the reason he'll never be enshrined. Groza, Blanda, and Morton Anderson are the only kickers in the Hall, and the first two are in more for other reasons than kicking. Anderson's the only pure kicker in until Vinatieri, who's almost certainly a first ballot guy. I just think there are a few non-kickers whose contributions to ST need to be recognized. How many games have Steve Tasker and Slater directly impacted? Hester probably more so. Not just for the returns, but for the impact he had when he didn't get to return. He had a Revis Island kind of effect.

[pg1067]

So was anyone else underwhelmed by this year's HOF class?

I mean - D-Ware - OK, Chuck Howley - definitely YES!

The rest - meh....

That's fair because the class was mostly (1) linemen (not exciting), (2) LONG-retired guys that no one under 40 saw play, and/or (3) dead guys.

Ronde Barber and Darrelle Revis - I was thinking about this a week or two ago.  Defensive backs are hard to judge.  When they're REALLY good, you don't hear a lot about them because offenses stay away from them.  Reavis got a lot of media attention for a couple years, but I otherwise never heard much.  Barber didn't even get that much.  I would have said both were no more than HOVG'ers (Hall of Very Good), but like I said, defensive backs are difficult.

Dan Coryell - Posthumous inductions are a bit underwhelming, but he should've been in a LONG time ago.

Chuck Howley - Before my time.  The only thing I know about him is that he was (and still is) the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team.

Joe Klecko - He was overshadowed by Mark Gastineau, but he was much better.  No one wanted to run at Klecko.

Ken Riley - Mostly before my time.  I remember him, but I don't remember much about him.

Joe Thomas - One of the few offensive linemen to stand out because he virtually never allowed a sack on a mostly atrocious team.  But o-linemen aren't exciting.

Zack Thomas - This is the one that's surprising to me.  A definite HOVG'er.

DeMarcus Ware - Another non-flashy guy, but definitely a guy you didn't want to deal with.

At some point they're gonna have to let Devin Hester in just to break the lock on ST players getting in. Seems like this would have been a good year. Adam Vinatieri is a lock for 2025, but I don't think that'll clear the way for core special teamers.

Steve Tasker should be in, and Matthew Slater seems like a no-brainer.

Definitely. I was thinking up to Vinatieri.  Who kicker is in before?  Gary Yepremian?  I also don't think a kicker got in before on their 1st ballot or am I wrong?

The three guys in the HOF who were primarily kickers are Morten Andersen, Lou Groza and Jan Stenerud (Groza was before my time, but I know him mostly as a kicker - the guy's nickname was "The Toe").  Stenerud was the first pure kicker to be inducted, with his induction happening six years after his last season as a player.  I can't really think of another kicker who had the combination of longevity, reliability and big moments like Vinatieri and Tucker did, although Jason Elam has a soft spot in my heart.

[King Postwhore]

It's weird that so little clutch kickers are in.

[pg1067]

According to a few "best kickers of all-time" lists, these are the best eligible kickers not in the HOF:

- Jason Hanson (20 seasons with the Lions; career 82.4% FG%)

- Gary Anderson (22 seasons with several teams; 80.1% FG%, but probably best known for a missed FG)

- Jim Bakken (17 seasons with the Cardinals; only a 63.1% FG%)

- Matt Stover (18 seasons with the Browns, Ravens and Colts; 83.7% FG%)

- Mark Mosely (17 seasons, mostly with the Redskins; only a 65.6% FG%)

- Jason Elam (17 seasons, mostly with the Broncos; 80.7% FG% and a 63-yard FG)

Note that most of the lists I looked at have a lot of active guys.  It seems we're in the golden age of kickers.

[King Postwhore]

You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.

[pg1067]

You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.

Anderson was the second guy on the list, and Elam was the last guy I listed, and I expressly wrote, "best eligible kickers not in the HOF."  Gostkowski and Tucker aren't yet eligible (nor are Prater, Dawson, Bryant or Gano).

[El Barto]

You left off Jason Elam, Gary Anderson, Stephen Gostkowski, Justin Tucker.  I know Tucker is still going  UT I think the league looked down on the importance of kickers

I know Billl Belichick hasn't over 2 decades.

Anderson was the second guy on the list, and Elam was the last guy I listed, and I expressly wrote, "best eligible kickers not in the HOF."  Gostkowski and Tucker aren't yet eligible (nor are Prater, Dawson, Bryant or Gano).

Based on what we've seen none of them are getting in accept Tucker. Years of exclusion has simply set the bar too high.

[pg1067]

Seems to me that the years of exclusion/ignoring the position have left the bar extremely low, not high.

Stenerud is in for a 19-season career with these numbers:

- One Super Bowl title
- 66.8 FG% (75.33% from 30-39 yards; 51.33% from 40-49 yards; 26.56% from 50+ yards)
- 96.5 XP% (in the chip shot era)
- 1,699 points
- 1x 1st-team and 2x 2nd-team All Pro; 6x Pro Bowl

Compare a guy like Elam (17 seasons):

- Two Super Bowl titles
- 80.7 FG% (89.80% from 30-39 yards; 66.07% from 40-49 yards; 60% from 50+ yards)
- 99.4 XP% (chip shot era)
- 1,983 points
- 3x 2nd-team All pro; 3x Pro Bowl

I think it's a simple matter of no one being a vocal advocate for kickers, who are often seen as "not real football players," which is awfully amusing since every team's leading scorer is usually the kicker.

[El Barto]

Wasn't Stenerud the guy who brought soccer style kicking to the NFL? If he was that gave him a real leg up, given how the league changed after that. In any case, I think they've just kind of established that only the best of the best of the best kickers get in. Kind of lame, really, but I don't see them opening the floodgates at this point.

[pg1067]

Per Stenerud's Wikipedia page:  After coming to the United States (specifically, Montana State in Bozeman) on a ski jumping scholarship, "his right leg's prowess was observed by [the] basketball head coach, . . . [who] notified [the] football head coach, . . . [who] offered [Stenerud] a tryout."  He kicked a then record 59-yard field goal and was an All-American in both football and ski jumping (I'm guessing the only person who can make that claim).  As a pro, "Stenerud was one of the first professional football players to be used as a dedicated kicker . . . [and] one of the first placekickers to use the 'soccer style,' a technique the Hungarian-born Pete Gogolak had recently introduced in the AFL.  During his first three years as professional, the last seasons for the AFL, Stenerud hit 70% of his field goals, compared with a 53% average for the other kickers in the AFL and NFL."

This was my first exposure to Stenerud:



Ten-year old me thought he looked about 90 years old!

[TAC]

I feel like I had that run of football cards.

[pg1067]

I feel like I had that run of football cards.

That was my first year collecting football cards.  My friend and I used to ride our bikes to a local store called Stop n Go (essentially a 7-11/Circle K type of store).  One of us would buy a candy bar or something, and the other would stuff half a dozen packs of football cards in our pants.  We probably got away with 50-100 packs over the course of a few months until we got caught.  I had the entire set from 1977 except for Glen Edwards, a safety for the Steelers.  Unfortunately, I ended up selling my cards for peanuts.  This one is now worth a shitload of money:

[King Postwhore]

I guess Zeke Eliot is signing a 1 year 6 million with incentives contract.

[El Barto]

I guess Zeke Eliot is signing a 1 year 6 million with incentives contract.

That should be a real good fit. I know he's past his prime, but he can run, catch, and block. He should be a reliable 3rd down back with one of the youngsters spelling Stevenson. It also doesn't hurt since they're playing Dallas early in the season.

[King Postwhore]

Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.

[TAC]

Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.

So he'll be relieving Rhamondre?

[King Postwhore]

Great blockers and is a very good relieving back. Completely agree. With spell Rhamondre Stevenson a bit.

So he'll be relieving Rhamondre?

[cramx3]

Wasn't Stenerud the guy who brought soccer style kicking to the NFL?

I thought that was Ray Finkle

[TheCountOfNYC]

Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

[lordxizor]

Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

Glad he landed somewhere. I was sad to see him leave Minnesota. He's a great player. But I get that it's a business first and he was significantly overpaid for the value he brought as a running back.

[Jamesman42]

Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

What's the code for the barf emoji?

[Skeever]

Dalvin Cook to the Jets. If these guys all mesh together as a team, the Jets are scary this year.

I have my doubts while the o-line is a massive vulnerability.
I think that's part of why Rogers may have taken the pay cut. It might take 2 years for the team to really come together fully, especially if the O-Line isn't right. 

[T-ski]

Have my fantasy draft over the weekend. Anybody have sleepers they're high on? Players to avoid?

[pg1067]

Have my fantasy draft over the weekend. Anybody have sleepers they're high on? Players to avoid?

Mine is on Sunday, and I haven't even begun to think about it.

[T-ski]

Here's the fantasy team I've got (10 team ppr)...

QB - Fields
RB - Henry, Mattison, Montgomery, McKinnon, Wilson Jr., Joshua Kelley
WR - Kupp, Olave, Hollywood Brown, Dotson, Nico Collins, Gallup
TE - Pitts
D - Saints
K - Dicker

[pg1067]

My team (10 team league):

QB - Allen, Goff, Purdy
RB - McCaffrey, Pacheco, Gibson
WR - Samuel, Jeudy, Cooks, Beckham
TE - Hockenson, Conklin
K - Tucker
D - Eagles, Jaguars

[Dream Team]

My draft isn't until Labor Day. Been on a bad losing streak, won 2 years in a row back in the day when I had Todd Gurley in his prime but been bad since. My weakness lately is probably I always try to get a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts/Justin Field type too early in the draft and end up getting screwed on running backs.

[Samsara]

I'm feeling great about my JETS this year, which means something bad is going to happen.  To be honest, the team spent all this money at impact positions, but didn't shore up the offensive line. That's going to be trouble with a 40 year old QB.

I don't do fantasy football any longer, but loved it when I did.

[El Barto]

I'm feeling great about my JETS this year, which means something bad is going to happen.  To be honest, the team spent all this money at impact positions, but didn't shore up the offensive line. That's going to be trouble with a 40 year old QB.

I don't do fantasy football any longer, but loved it when I did.

Don't worry. It's not like they play in a sack-happy division or anything.