2023 NFL Thread v Super Bowl matchup: Chiefs vs. 49ers

[bosk1]

So somehow the Political Thread has devolved into a discussion of Super Bowl party foods, and the NFL thread has gone to the gutter making fun of the far-right as "loony" and "deranged".

The world makes no sense. 

In our defense, the far right is all of those things. At least the far left colors their hair blue to signify their looniness.

So...they are Lions fans?

[Jamesman42]

Seems that there is a lot of disinterest (at least vocally) on other sites about how this SB is not exciting.

Not sure where you've been hanging out, but I have seen the exact opposite.

Same.  Not exciting?  The best team this year (49ers) vs. the best team of the last several years (Chiefs)?  Except for haters of those teams, this is almost a dream matchup.

I don't mean in terms of the teams that are there, but in what other possibilities there were. Lions in the SB, Bills making it, Lamar making it, Tua coming back to lead them, Baker with the Bucs, there were so many really cool possibilities. I am expecting a great game, but the underlying excitement of other matchups is gone, and the "boring" one prevailed.

[Skeever]

Trying to imagine anyone wanting to watch Tua in the Super Bowl instead of Mahomes (aside from Fins fans, obviously).

[pg1067]

Trying to imagine anyone wanting to watch Tua in the Super Bowl instead of Mahomes (aside from Fins fans, obviously).

I'd rather see P.J. Walker, Clayton Tune or Jeff Driskel than Mahomes and Maauto again (and I'd never heard of any of those guys until I googled a list of every QB to start at least one game in 2023).

And I really think the NFL ought to ban advertising that includes a player playing in the game.  How many commercials featuring some combination of Mahomes, Kelce and Reid did we have to endure last Sunday?  It seriously felt like every other commercial had at least one of them.

[bosk1]

Honestly, Lions and Bills are probably the most boring possibilities out of those.  If not for the 49ers making it, KC as well for a lot of us, but there are plenty of stories there for those who care.  And them facing the 49ers for a rematch of 2020 is a story in and of itself.

[DragonAttack]

Local news had a story about a guy that was SO SURE that the Lions were going to win, he got a tattoo on his shoulder that said "Detroit Lions 2024 Champs" and had the Lion logo transposed over the Lombardi trophy.

Oops.

The winner in two weeks will be the 2023 champs, so....he's just getting a jump on things.

[lonestar]

So somehow the Political Thread has devolved into a discussion of Super Bowl party foods, and the NFL thread has gone to the gutter making fun of the far-right as "loony" and "deranged".

The world makes no sense. 

In our defense, the far right is all of those things. At least the far left colors their hair blue to signify their looniness.

So...they are Lions fans?

No... Cal fans

[Jamesman42]

Honestly, Lions and Bills are probably the most boring possibilities out of those.  If not for the 49ers making it, KC as well for a lot of us, but there are plenty of stories there for those who care.  And them facing the 49ers for a rematch of 2020 is a story in and of itself.

It's a story, for sure, but people want to see new teams there as well, that part is exciting, I think that's what I am gathering from reading online (reddit mostly, but I believe there was an article as well somewhere).

[bosk1]

...but people want to see new teams there as well, that part is exciting

I get that that is a thing because I've heard others say it.  But I don't understand that thinking at all.  It makes no sense to me.

[Jamesman42]

Spoken like someone whose team is in the Super Bowl

[bosk1]

It has never made sense to me.  If a team is great, I don't mind seeing them competing for it year in and year out.  If they earn it, that's great, whether they were there 10 times in the last 10 years, or none.  I don't want to see a team just because they haven't been there before. 

[Jamesman42]

I get that. But the two teams in the SB now aren't the only good teams. The lions had every reason to win that game and to lose it, and they were so close to being there. The Lions are a great team, maybe not as good as SF (not actually a maybe) but they were just as worthy to play, and that is exciting because they had the talent AND the excitement of a team making it for the first time. I guess it's some sort of compounding effect. I can expect a good game from two amazing teams, but we've seen it before as well. So I think that might be a factor.

[jammindude]

It has never made sense to me.  If a team is great, I don't mind seeing them competing for it year in and year out.  If they earn it, that's great, whether they were there 10 times in the last 10 years, or none.  I don't want to see a team just because they haven't been there before.

...unless it were the Seahawks. 

[lonestar]

Well yeah...fuck the Seahawks...

[King Postwhore]

I can't comment, for obvious reasons.

[jammindude]

Well yeah...fuck the Seahawks...

I love you man! This is how healthy rivalries are supposed to be!!


(I hope the Chiefs embarrass you worse than we embarrassed the Broncos) 

[Podaar]

Honestly, Lions and Bills are probably the most boring possibilities out of those.  If not for the 49ers making it, KC as well for a lot of us, but there are plenty of stories there for those who care.  And them facing the 49ers for a rematch of 2020 is a story in and of itself.

I don't know, bosk. I think it's pretty exciting watching Josh Allen tap dancing on the tightrope woven of extreme talent and fat-headed ego. You never know if he's going to throw a perfect spiral into a 12 inch window for a big first down, or try and force a bomb to Diggs in triple coverage when all he had to do was walk four yards. The man brings a lot of excitement to the game.

[hefdaddy42]

I mean, the matchup we get is the matchup we get.  As a fan of a team who has been twice and won't ever be there again in the foreseeable future, I want to see the best teams possible, unless one of those teams is a team I hate, which is not the case this year (or most years).  But if the Patriots or Cowboys ever make it there again, good for them, and I will root for the opponent.

Of course, if it's Patriots vs. Cowboys, I will be in a pickle.

[TAC]

Then you'll be rooting for whoever plays the Cowboys because you won't ever see the Patriots there again.

[Stadler]

Then you'll be rooting for whoever plays the Cowboys because you won't ever see the Patriots there again.

Not in the near future, that's for sure. 

Jerry Jones said today that the Cowboys are "all in!" for 2024. Then WTF were they for the last three years?   Blah, blah, blah.

[jammindude]

Then you'll be rooting for whoever plays the Cowboys because you won't ever see the Patriots there again.

Not in the near future, that's for sure. 

Jerry Jones said today that the Cowboys are "all in!" for 2024. Then WTF were they for the last three years?   Blah, blah, blah.

The idea of going "all in" after losing the hand just has me giggling.

[Dream Team]

I think it'd be cool if everyone could just enjoy watching great teams and great players instead of constantly being caught up in who's better than who stuff. For instance, Christian McCaffrey is the real MVP of the league and I think he'll be the biggest X-factor in this game.

If you happen to have casual fans or noobs at your Super Bowl party, please talk to them a little during the game about O-line play and defense because the QB vs QB media stuff is wrecking people's understanding of what it takes to win football games and be successful as a TEAM.

[bosk1]

If you happen to have casual fans or noobs at your Super Bowl party, please talk to them a little during the game about O-line play and defense because the QB vs QB media stuff is wrecking people's understanding of what it takes to win football games and be successful as a TEAM.

I agree with all that.  But at the same time, we also have unprecedented access to more in-depth analysis of football than ever before, which I think has also resulted in greater awareness and understanding among those willing to dive into that stuff.  On a surface level, it's easier than ever to save a stream of the game and be able to go back and watch the entire thing over and over again instantaneously, and the NFL puts the game highlight reel up very soon after each game.  And for those that want to dig deeper and be beneath the surface, there are LOTS of guys out there that get access to actual game film from multiple angles (the all-22 and much, much more).  And there are tons of guys on YouTube and other places that do deep dives into game film, game highlights, or both, with varying degrees of depth and competence.  So for those willing to dive deeper and look at what is going on in an NFL game beyond what the loudest media personalities have to say about QB vs. QB, we have unprecedented access and ability to do that.  I know I've plugged Johnny Del's Football Academy's channel on YouTube here before.  He's one of those guys that gets access to actual game tape (not the NFL broadcast, but the all-22 and other angles), and does weekly breakdowns of key plays in games.  It's 49ers-centric, so the breakdowns are of 49ers games and relevant plays from other opponents' games, but his analysis is incredible in terms of really learning what is happening with each position during plays and why, and what the players are seeing and reading, what the coaches are calling, etc.  And I know there are guys out there doing similar things for other teams as well.  But even if you aren't a 49ers fan, it's worth checking out his channel, because I can almost guarantee you will come away learning a LOT about football in general.  I know I have.  For example, here's his video breaking down the Philly offense vs. the SF defense during that game earlier in the season (he has a corresponding one for SF offense, as he does most weeks).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7u_wyDPPrs  Josh Putnam is another great one for 49ers film breakdowns, although he has a completely different style and focus, and I think Johnny has more knowledge and understanding of the Xs and Os.  But, again, there are guys out there doing similar things for other teams too. 

Anyhow, again, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.  Just pointing out the flip side.  Problem is, even with all these great resources, the media voices with the surface level takes are the loudest, and a lot of people won't dig beyond that narrative to really understand the sport. 

[faizoff]

Looks like the commies are hiring Dan Quinn as their head coach.

[Stadler]

I think it'd be cool if everyone could just enjoy watching great teams and great players instead of constantly being caught up in who's better than who stuff. For instance, Christian McCaffrey is the real MVP of the league and I think he'll be the biggest X-factor in this game.

If you happen to have casual fans or noobs at your Super Bowl party, please talk to them a little during the game about O-line play and defense because the QB vs QB media stuff is wrecking people's understanding of what it takes to win football games and be successful as a TEAM.

?

[TAC]

If you happen to have casual fans or noobs at your Super Bowl party, please talk to them a little during the game about O-line play and defense because the QB vs QB media stuff is wrecking people's understanding of what it takes to win football games and be successful as a TEAM.

I agree with all that.  But at the same time, we also have unprecedented access to more in-depth analysis of football than ever before, which I think has also resulted in greater awareness and understanding among those willing to dive into that stuff.  On a surface level, it's easier than ever to save a stream of the game and be able to go back and watch the entire thing over and over again instantaneously, and the NFL puts the game highlight reel up very soon after each game.  And for those that want to dig deeper and be beneath the surface, there are LOTS of guys out there that get access to actual game film from multiple angles (the all-22 and much, much more).  And there are tons of guys on YouTube and other places that do deep dives into game film, game highlights, or both, with varying degrees of depth and competence.  So for those willing to dive deeper and look at what is going on in an NFL game beyond what the loudest media personalities have to say about QB vs. QB, we have unprecedented access and ability to do that.  I know I've plugged Johnny Del's Football Academy's channel on YouTube here before.  He's one of those guys that gets access to actual game tape (not the NFL broadcast, but the all-22 and other angles), and does weekly breakdowns of key plays in games.  It's 49ers-centric, so the breakdowns are of 49ers games and relevant plays from other opponents' games, but his analysis is incredible in terms of really learning what is happening with each position during plays and why, and what the players are seeing and reading, what the coaches are calling, etc.  And I know there are guys out there doing similar things for other teams as well.  But even if you aren't a 49ers fan, it's worth checking out his channel, because I can almost guarantee you will come away learning a LOT about football in general.  I know I have.  For example, here's his video breaking down the Philly offense vs. the SF defense during that game earlier in the season (he has a corresponding one for SF offense, as he does most weeks).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7u_wyDPPrs  Josh Putnam is another great one for 49ers film breakdowns, although he has a completely different style and focus, and I think Johnny has more knowledge and understanding of the Xs and Os.  But, again, there are guys out there doing similar things for other teams too. 

Anyhow, again, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.  Just pointing out the flip side.  Problem is, even with all these great resources, the media voices with the surface level takes are the loudest, and a lot of people won't dig beyond that narrative to really understand the sport.

Dream Team's side...one sentence.

Bosk's flip side...  a short novella.

[cramx3]

If you happen to have casual fans or noobs at your Super Bowl party, please talk to them a little during the game about O-line play and defense because the QB vs QB media stuff is wrecking people's understanding of what it takes to win football games and be successful as a TEAM.

I get what you are saying, that stuff is not only interesting but integral to the game... but when you say casual fan, this isn't going to interest them beyond basic defensive ideas.  It's hard enough to explain the basic gameplay to casuals, let alone the deep dive analysis of the game. Of coursse if any interest is shown, then great, dive in, but I can guarantee every casual at my gf's house for the game will not care about the line play unless there's a lot of false starts and holding calls.

[DragonAttack]

Speaking of lines....I believe that KC will be missing two starters on their defensive line next weekend.

Coaching hires:  Mike Macdonald to Seattle.  Seven years with the Ravens, great success during his one year as DC at Michigan, and two as DC with the Ravens.  Those are no guarantees, but his track record and attitude should excite Seahawks fans.

Ravens promote Zachary Orr to DC.  His playing career was cut way short due to a neck injury.  Great assistant here, then J'ville, and then back here again.  No guarantees, but again, his pedigree has put this fan base at ease.

Dan Quinn to Washington:  such a head scratcher.  Riviera did what he could with a despicable owner and terrible organization.  First hire for the new owner, and that's who he chooses?  I really thought Belichick would be the hire.  Now I'm wondering when the owner will burn those putrid all black unis, and come up with something decent as to their 'normal' ones.

[bosk1]

Ravens promote Zachary Orr to DC.  His playing career was cut way short due to a neck injury.  Great assistant here, then J'ville, and then back here again.  No guarantees, but again, his pedigree has put this fan base at ease.

I don't know him, but that's great that it seems like such a good hire.  I like that team, and win or lose last week, I was bummed to see them kind of melt down.  I hope they can regroup and would love it if they could become the new face of the AFC in coming years. 

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am more surprised that Vrabel is still jobless than Belichick.

[Stadler]

It's stunning to me some of these hires.  I think some of these owners are literally scared of actual success. I think some of these owners simply DO NOT know how to win in the athletic realm, even if they know how to be successful in their respective fields (though I'm always surprised at how many of these owners aren't really "smart" or "insightful" but rather have been in the right place at the right time). 

You've really got two camps:  those that keep going back to the same well, emphasizing "experience" but excusing "failure" and those that think that "new" and "able to use the word 'analytics' in a sentence" means success!  it think both of those are questionable strategies.

By the way, Patrick Mahomes Sr. was on ESPN this morning (by phone) and they asked him point blank: "Is your son, Patrick, the greatest of all time (the GOAT)?"   And he said: "That has yet to be determined."   Humble, maybe, but spot on.  If even HE is saying it, then the pundits need to cool their jets.

[hunnus2000]

As we all know, the NFL is a copy-cat league. The current trend is to hire young bright OCs or DCs because they can relate to the players better than an old codger.

Bill did not do anything to endear himself to the players, Refs or the media. He needs to rebuild his image, otherwise his coaching career is all but done. His decisions as a coach and GM have been deplorable after Brady left.

As for Mahomes, he may not be the goat yet but if he retired tomorrow, he would easily be a first ballot HoFer.

Anyone disagree? 

[cramx3]

As we all know, the NFL is a copy-cat league. The current trend is to hire young bright OCs or DCs because they can relate to the players better than an old codger.

Bill did not do anything to endear himself to the players, Refs or the media. He needs to rebuild his image, otherwise his coaching career is all but done. His decisions as a coach and GM have been deplorable after Brady left.

As for Mahomes, he may not be the goat yet but if he retired tomorrow, he would easily be a first ballot HoFer.

Anyone disagree? 

This is why I felt there was a chance the game has passed Bill.  It's not an xs and os thing.  It's a personality thing.  I think a lot of young players would still play for him because of the rings, but I think there's a large group of people that don't want to work with or for him.  He's simply not likeable and while I think coaches like him are necessary for some teams (I personally like the tough disciplined type coach that he is), it just seems in the current version of the NFL, everyone wants that new flashy young guy who can play the media game and relate to the younger athletes.  Of course there is also the "win now" and he hasn't done that either.

[bosk1]

Hard to say whether that is truly what the issue is, and it's easy for us on the outside to make those assumptions.  It wouldn't surprise me if that was a factor.  But there are also some tough coaches that people don't hate working with/for.  I think Shanahan is one.  Whether or not he is a "jerk" depends on who you ask.  But from what I have heard, although he can be demanding, blunt, and sometimes harsh, it's always aimed at performance and not at the person, and players who (1) are willing to work hard and (2) have a thick skin to not take any of that personally, really love playing for him.  Players who are not willing to put in the work are the ones that seem to come away with a negative impression, because he doesn't put up with that.  Since Hargrave came over from Philly, he has made comments about how different the 49ers are from other organizations, in terms of both how HARD it is because of how hard players are expected to work during every practice, every meeting, and every play of every game, and with how much of a family it is and how much coaching and the organization care for their players.  I think it was Chase Young that made similar comments.  That, to me, is a good balance, and seems to get results from the players.  There are a couple of guys of guys on the D line that are more recent acquisitions that I think may find themselves on the wrong side of that and be looking for new homes at the end of the season unless they have performances in the SB that show maximum effort on every play.

[King Postwhore]

Many player are appreciative to Bill.  But I do think he wears down players.  Happened to Brady and Gronk.  I still think he mismanaged the draft towards the end.  Scouts left because they did all this hard work but Bill took the word other college coaches he was friends with over the scout for the Pats.  Then add the more responsibility he took on.  They had the least amount of coaches on his staff than many other teams.  The staff and player were diluted down in quality.