Parasomnia Timeline Thread

[TAC]

I personally feel like JP has settled for a vocal track instead of a vocal performance on record.  Not counting The Astonishing.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It's fairly rare when people who have friction in close quarters, and then get along much better when apart, suddenly start having zero friction when placed back into close quarters.

Not impossible, but it would be contrary to the norm.

I don't know if it's the norm or not but I think in this particular situation there is slim to no chance there is any friction that spills into public view. Back in the day, MP had the ability to threaten JLB if he did not improve his performance. There is no indication he would have that power today or that he would even care enough to get confrontational again if he were unhappy with the vocal department. Again, the guys just made up after over a decade. It was MP's wish to get back in this band and he has said he is a different person now. Do you really think that after playing the long game and patching things up with everyone, he's going to get in there and start making waves over something that quite possibly might not even be fixable? That can't be why everyone agreed to make this unforced lineup change. If the Decision is about friendship first and foremost, I don't see how they let the 'drama' (MP's words) manifest itself in their last chapter. Just does not seem at all likely.

[Wim Kruithof]

Completely follow what you're saying Barstool Warrior.

[MirrorMask]

It's fairly rare when people who have friction in close quarters, and then get along much better when apart, suddenly start having zero friction when placed back into close quarters.

Not impossible, but it would be contrary to the norm.

I don't know if it's the norm or not but I think in this particular situation there is slim to no chance there is any friction that spills into public view. Back in the day, MP had the ability to threaten JLB if he did not improve his performance. There is no indication he would have that power today or that he would even care enough to get confrontational again if he were unhappy with the vocal department. Again, the guys just made up after over a decade. It was MP's wish to get back in this band and he has said he is a different person now. Do you really think that after playing the long game and patching things up with everyone, he's going to get in there and start making waves over something that quite possibly might not even be fixable? That can't be why everyone agreed to make this unforced lineup change. If the Decision is about friendship first and foremost, I don't see how they let the 'drama' (MP's words) manifest itself in their last chapter. Just does not seem at all likely.

I agree. We're not talking about Blackmore and Gillian here. They will get along just fine, and whatever creative issues will arise, they'll be able to work them out.

[goo-goo]

I agree. We're not talking about Blackmore and Gillian here. They will get along just fine, and whatever creative issues will arise, they'll be able to work them out.

Don't know about that. Do you guys remember "The Contract" from the Making of Systematic Chaos DVD? 

Seriously, I'm with Barstool on this one. Mike seems more mellow in his interviews lately. Not just talking about the most recent ones but even from some years ago post-DT.

[hefdaddy42]

It would be kinda cool though if they named the new album "Majesty"

I don't know.  It would be funnier if they went with this Majesy lol

[Max Kuehnau]

updated to include most recent information (including making it easier to read)

[Zydar]

It would be kinda cool though if they named the new album "Majesty"

I don't know.  It would be funnier if they went with this Majesy lol

Mayonnaise

[Max Kuehnau]

It would be kinda cool though if they named the new album "Majesty"

I don't know.  It would be funnier if they went with this Majesy lol

Mayonnaise

and then imagine DT doing Goodfellas, John slicing the garlic. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV6CijIzrc)

[pg1067]

My son sent me this and I thought it was real at first but apparently it's AI LOL. Anyway it got me wondering, do you guys think they will use Syme again? I feel his output has gotten increasingly 'lazy' and now robots do a better job than he does...

Yes, they'll use Syme again, because they don't seem to agree that his output has been "lazy."  And there is NOTHING "better" about that AI-created abomination.  "Majesy"??   

[pg1067]

updated to include most recent information (including making it easier to read)

Hmmm...

My time with DT has been called (again.) Good night everyone. The thread will not be continued.

[Max Kuehnau]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

[Setlist Scotty]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

Why? I know you said you prefer the MM-era stuff over the MP-era stuff, but surely there are some things from the MP-era that you enjoy. IIRC, you were a fan of DT *before* MM joined, right? If so, why despise everything from the MP-era?

[PMSummer]

My son sent me this and I thought it was real at first but apparently it's AI LOL. Anyway it got me wondering, do you guys think they will use Syme again? I feel his output has gotten increasingly 'lazy' and now robots do a better job than he does...

Yes, they'll use Syme again, because they don't seem to agree that his output has been "lazy."  And there is NOTHING "better" about that AI-created abomination.  "Majesy"??   

Didn't notice it, 'Majesy'—gotta love when AI takes a swing and misses the mark. 😄 Other than that I think it kinda fits in well though. For me it seems lazy because it is just references copy pasted + a bit resized onto a background, A Views cover is probably one of my least favourites in that regard.

[Max Kuehnau]

double post, sorry

[Max Kuehnau]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

Why? I know you said you prefer the MM-era stuff over the MP-era stuff, but surely there are some things from the MP-era that you enjoy. IIRC, you were a fan of DT *before* MM joined, right? If so, why despise everything from the MP-era?

Long story short: I was a fan of MP era DT until 2004 (one aspect that led to me not being a fan of them anymore until 2011 was that I met MP twice and he wasn't the nicest person to be around at the time and so that led to my perspective on him changing quite a bit, but the other aspect (and that doesn't have anything to do with him as a person, but as a player) was that it came a point in my evolution as a musician and as a listener of music where I had to focus on technical proficiency and precision just to be able to keep playing and so, I began to notice any inaccuracies in any kind of music and I don't want to deal with that in any kind of music, so I vowed to myself that I can only ever listen to DT again whenever they upped the game. They did when MM joined. DT became enjoyable for me again. This is highly unlikely to happen these days given the events.  TLDR: I enjoyed MP era DT because I was young and stupid and didn't know nearly as much about music as I do now. And yes, their writing was great (largely) during MP era DT. That isn't nearly as important as the rest to me (anymore).

[Setlist Scotty]

Thanks for the explanation - I just saw your PM and responded similarly to my last post!   

Anyway, I can appreciate your feelings, but I think there's one thing that you're missing or perhaps another thing you're too focused on. You acknowledge that the band's writing during the MP-era was largely great, which is key to the band beyond anything else. That's what music is (or at least I think should be) all about first and foremost. The fact that it isn't anymore and you describe your previous viewpoint as "young and stupid" is a bit unusual. I mean there's nothing wrong with appreciating technical proficiency - I think to a degree we all enjoy that, which is why we gravitate towards DT in the first place. But it looks like you're focusing too much on specific details rather than the bigger picture (no pun intended) which is the music produced by the band as a whole. There's a guy on the DT World Facebook group that is hell bent on repeatedly posting about how much better that MM is over MP, and it's true that MM is far more advanced than MP technically speaking - even MP himself would be the first to admit that. But as I told him, it's not simply about who's the most technical out there like a contest, which I get is the direction you seem to be going in.

Then again, I know that tastes change and that just as someone gets into a band, they can also lose interest too. That's happened to me with Pain of Salvation and a few others. But my losing interest had more to do with the direction they went in *after* I actually heard the music and couldn't connect with it, not because of a change in the line up.

[hefdaddy42]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

Why? I know you said you prefer the MM-era stuff over the MP-era stuff, but surely there are some things from the MP-era that you enjoy. IIRC, you were a fan of DT *before* MM joined, right? If so, why despise everything from the MP-era?

Long story short: I was a fan of MP era DT until 2004 (one aspect that led to me not being a fan of them anymore until 2011 was that I met MP twice and he wasn't the nicest person to be around at the time and so that led to my perspective on him changing quite a bit, but the other aspect (and that doesn't have anything to do with him as a person, but as a player) was that it came a point in my evolution as a musician and as a listener of music where I had to focus on technical proficiency and precision just to be able to keep playing and so, I began to notice any inaccuracies in any kind of music and I don't want to deal with that in any kind of music, so I vowed to myself that I can only ever listen to DT again whenever they upped the game. They did when MM joined. DT became enjoyable for me again. This is highly unlikely to happen these days given the events.  TLDR: I enjoyed MP era DT because I was young and stupid and didn't know nearly as much about music as I do now. And yes, their writing was great (largely) during MP era DT. That isn't nearly as important as the rest to me (anymore).

I can't relate to very much of that, but you do whatever you feel you need to do, my dude. 

[Max Kuehnau]

I don't expect anyone to be able to relate to it, but this is why some things played out the way they did. Also I'm on the autism spectrum in case no one noticed already (or read part of my own roulette thread back in the day, which I had to abandon for health reasons), so by that token, I was absolutely dumbfounded about MP rejoining for various reasons (because I always had the impression of DT getting along even better than before with MM and them being at their peak musically with him too, so why ditch him, if you get the idea. Still doesn't make sense to me. Unlikely it ever will, but humans are strange creatures, myself very much included.  )

[Max Kuehnau]

Thanks for the explanation - I just saw your PM and responded similarly to my last post!   

Anyway, I can appreciate your feelings, but I think there's one thing that you're missing or perhaps another thing you're too focused on. You acknowledge that the band's writing during the MP-era was largely great, which is key to the band beyond anything else. That's what music is (or at least I think should be) all about first and foremost. The fact that it isn't anymore and you describe your previous viewpoint as "young and stupid" is a bit unusual. I mean there's nothing wrong with appreciating technical proficiency - I think to a degree we all enjoy that, which is why we gravitate towards DT in the first place. But it looks like you're focusing too much on specific details rather than the bigger picture (no pun intended) which is the music produced by the band as a whole. There's a guy on the DT World Facebook group that is hell bent on repeatedly posting about how much better that MM is over MP, and it's true that MM is far more advanced than MP technically speaking - even MP himself would be the first to admit that. But as I told him, it's not simply about who's the most technical out there like a contest, which I get is the direction you seem to be going in.

Then again, I know that tastes change and that just as someone gets into a band, they can also lose interest too. That's happened to me with Pain of Salvation and a few others. But my losing interest had more to do with the direction they went in *after* I actually heard the music and couldn't connect with it, not because of a change in the line up.

I'll gladly take the pun though (the bigger picture), thanks very much. Loved them playing it in 2017.

[Sycsa]

It would be kinda cool though if they named the new album "Majesty"

I don't know.  It would be funnier if they went with this Majesy lol

https://youtu.be/Q-mXY8OjPEs?si=UC0FvDdjKg1LVf1S&t=187

[Wim Kruithof]

I don't expect anyone to be able to relate to it, but this is why some things played out the way they did. Also I'm on the autism spectrum in case no one noticed already (or read part of my own roulette thread back in the day, which I had to abandon for health reasons), so by that token, I was absolutely dumbfounded about MP rejoining for various reasons (because I always had the impression of DT getting along even better than before with MM and them being at their peak musically with him too, so why ditch him, if you get the idea. Still doesn't make sense to me. Unlikely it ever will, but humans are strange creatures, myself very much included.  )

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and feelings in this and wish you the very best.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

This seems extremely shortsighted and petty.

[Samsara]

Excited to see what DT comes up with now, particularly with MP back in the fold. Impossible to guess direction, at least I can't. I feel like bringing Mike back opens familiar doors, and that can be good and bad. Good, in that the true "fan champion" as I call him, is back in the saddle (and that is said with zero disrespect to the other members of DT). But on the other hand, I also found Mike's last few records with DT to be lame. (And yes, I realize I'm likely in the minority on that.) I actually dug DoT and AVFtTotW quite a bit.

But the elephant in the room is JLB. There's no disguising that he's going through issues vocally. How does that impact the creativity during the sessions, when it comes to composing music to which a vocal will go over it? These guys have known one another forever, and I am sure they'll all figure it out. But it sorta has to be addressed, doesn't it?

Regarding artwork, I hope they keep Hugh Syme. I know the complaints, but I love Hugh's work. It doesn't always hit home, but when it does, it REALLY does. Just makes sense.

Anyway, looking forward to what 2024 has in store for Dream Theater. 

[The Letter M]

Regarding JLB's vocals, I think the band would be smart to recognize what James' current vocal range is and play into his strengths. He might not hit that 5th octave anymore like he used to, so write vocal melodies that are lower, not a lot of complex or complicated jumps, and craft appealing vocal melodies that'll translate well live. Save the vocal acrobatics for an epic climax or for emphasis on certain lyrics. I don't expect him to sing like he used to in the 00s. And with MP back, whether you like them or not, his backing and possibly lead vocals will probably return. I don't think we'll get another "day after day, night after night" part, but I suspect they'll give Mike some vocals, backing harmonies at the very least.

I have full faith that the band's musical direction will continue along the path they've laid before themselves with DOT and AVFTTOTW, andaube focus a bit more on making more accessible songs with powerful riffs and appealing melodies.

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

Regarding JLB's vocals, I think the band would be smart to recognize what James' current vocal range is and play into his strengths. He might not hit that 5th octave anymore like he used to, so write vocal melodies that are lower, not a lot of complex or complicated jumps, and craft appealing vocal melodies that'll translate well live. Save the vocal acrobatics for an epic climax or for emphasis on certain lyrics. I don't expect him to sing like he used to in the 00s. And with MP back, whether you like them or not, his backing and possibly lead vocals will probably return. I don't think we'll get another "day after day, night after night" part, but I suspect they'll give Mike some vocals, backing harmonies at the very least.

I have full faith that the band's musical direction will continue along the path they've laid before themselves with DOT and AVFTTOTW, andaube focus a bit more on making more accessible songs with powerful riffs and appealing melodies.

-Marc.

Without starting to beat on a dead horse all over again, we need to remember that JLB's recent struggles haven't all been related to his vocal range, but also pitch and intonation, no matter what register he was singing in. They need to address that for their live shows moving forward.

As for MP's vocals, I've never been a huge fan, but I'd say he's gotten a lot better at in in recent years, as he has done a lot more lead singing for specific sections or short songs with NMB, Transatlantic, Flying Colors, etc. It'd be nice to have some of that contrast on the new DT stuff without abusing it.

[Mosh]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

[Max Kuehnau]

As I mentioned, I've seen that it would be very abrupt of me not finishing the timeline. As I mentioned, this will be my final one, since my time as a DT fan is indeed up. I won't listen to anything DT will release from now on (unless Mike Mangini were to come back)

This seems extremely shortsighted and petty.

It's the truth though (in that it likely will be my final timeline and that my time as a DT fan is up. I did elaborate why at some point here if you want to read about it) and I'm not here to lie to anyone. Thanks for mentioning me being short sighted, it's why I wear glasses and and I had surgery for it.

[Max Kuehnau]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

[hefdaddy42]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

I guess it depends on what of it you see it as great.  For instance, he contributed no song structure, arrangement, chord progressions, lyrics, etc.

[pg1067]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

I guess it depends on what of it you see it as great.  For instance, he contributed no song structure, arrangement, chord progressions, lyrics, etc.

Agree.  I also thought View was pretty much "the same album" as DOT.

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah certainly no lyrics, I know that. But I don't know if he didn't contribute otherwise. He himself said that he contributed the most to any DT album with View.

[MirrorMask]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

View part two would be Distance Over Time part three. They already did two albums in a row packed with heavy songs, most of them relatively short for their standards, and the only exception to being all heavy were a ballad, a 20 minute epic, and a couple of Rush inspired song. Whatever they'll do, I hope in the Dramatic approach, anything goes: short songs, long songs, piano ballad, acoustic ballad.... View had only 7 songs - one epic, one lighthearted, and five heavy songs. I'm not saying all the songs sound the same, far from it, but there's not enough variety, especially coming from another album full of shorter heavy songs (at least that one had a ballad).

[Max Kuehnau]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

I guess it depends on what of it you see it as great.  For instance, he contributed no song structure, arrangement, chord progressions, lyrics, etc.

Agree.  I also thought View was pretty much "the same album" as DOT.

from a drumming perspective it very much was not in many ways, I can tell you that, because I've analysed it and it was fun to do. (examples being polyrhythms with three and four factors, very difficult blasts, some over said polys and an insanely difficult retardation that ends View, also over polys. Their hardest album to play.)  Also some melodic devices weren't used on D/T. (Like the secondary dominant bit during the chorus of Sleeping Giant that gets reprised in its parallel minor when it repeats, brilliant. That wasn't on D/T, yes I have half a degree in music, I can discern some stuff, even if I'm not a pianist) But they were both very good albums, one was fairly safe (D/T) and the other was the very antithesis of that

[Max Kuehnau]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

View part two would be Distance Over Time part three. They already did two albums in a row packed with heavy songs, most of them relatively short for their standards, and the only exception to being all heavy were a ballad, a 20 minute epic, and a couple of Rush inspired song. Whatever they'll do, I hope in the Dramatic approach, anything goes: short songs, long songs, piano ballad, acoustic ballad.... View had only 7 songs - one epic, one lighthearted, and five heavy songs. I'm not saying all the songs sound the same, far from it, but there's not enough variety, especially coming from another album full of shorter heavy songs (at least that one had a ballad).

Yeah my guess is that with MP back, the slate might be clean.