20 Years aboard the Train of Thought

[RoeDent]

Saturday November 11th marks 20 years since the release of Train of Thought. Your reflections on the album upon this momentous occasion, please.

[Dream Team]

Really didn't like it when it first came out. I grew on me a little over the years but now it's back toward the bottom. Endless Sacrifice and In The Name of God are the only 2 songs I ever listen to (ITNOG is a top 15 song for me).

[Stadler]

I just re-listened over the last week or so.   The highs are high - I forgot how good "In The Name Of God" was - and the lows are... right where I thought they would be.

[emtee]

This album represents the time period of my peak fandom, combined with the reality that the band was elongating songs with instrumental gymnastics that I felt detracted from the overall strength of the compositions. I think I had it atop my rotation for over 6 months and consequently, I burned myself out on it. For me, this album and what follows, marks a contrast from classic era DT, and my connection to their music.

[KevShmev]

I just re-listened over the last week or so.   The highs are high - I forgot how good "In The Name Of God" was - and the lows are... right where I thought they would be.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

[MirrorMask]

A great album, the fact that it's monothematic does not annoy me. Cool cover and companion booklet art, it was a pefect moody November release.

I just didn't vibe that much with the extreme, most modern touches of ultra heavy stuff of This Dying Soul and Honor Thy Father, and I dislike how the wanking solo section of Endless Sacrifice disrupts the mood of the song (why oh why do I need to hear a circus break in a song about long distance relationships?).

Vacant into Stream of Consciousness is great, and In the Name of God is the high water mark of the album.

All in all not a perfect album but a quite solid one, the "black album" after the "white album" that was Six Degrees. Oh, and the tour was a total riot, they were on fire with the Evening Shows back in those days.

[Wim Kruithof]

Coming from the metal-corner this album feels most comfortable to me. This Dying Soul simply is perfect, especially as a follow up to The Glass Prison. That's a one-two punch I would never get enough of. The mood, the dark reflections and riff-oriented signatures are some of their very best in their discography.

Although I pressume Rudess wouldn't feel the same though... it's basicly all Petrucci, Portnoy and Myung in here.

[nobloodyname]

Top three album for me. Achieves exactly what it sets out to.

[Buddyhunter1]

Top three album for me. Achieves exactly what it sets out to.

This. One of the greatest qualities of this album is that it's unapologetically what it is, and it doesn't give a fuck if you don't like it.

[Trav]

The peak of my DT obsession was around this time. I was a senior in high school. I skipped half way through the day so I could run out and buy it. At Best Buy, it think. And it had a parental advisory sticker on it, which made me think "oh God, what did they do!?"  I had heard the edited version of As I Am that was released before the album, so I had an idea of what it would be like, but I was a little down on it at first. I remember it being pretty divisive on the old MP forum upon release. It eventually grew on me, especially seeing those songs performed live.

Also, this tour was peak DT.

[bosk1]

I liked it when it first came out, but my love for it began to decline a bit after that.  I think just because it was all dark/heavy, and even though it had long, zany prog moments, those often felt to me like the band was just gratuitously going into shred mode for, often, longer than suited the songs. 

Two things got me to warm up to the album again:  (1) Seeing the live presentation of a lot of the songs, both in person, and on L@B.  (2) Interestingly, the release of Octavarium.  To me, those are great companion albums to one another.  And although it seems strange that a band releasing an album can impact one's feelings about a completely different album, that's what happened with me.  Octavarium is a refreshing counterpoint to TOT.  Although there are still metal moments, the overall tone of the Octavarium album is much lighter.  It feels more "prog-forward, with the 'metal' supporting the 'prog metal,'" whereas TOT was more "metal-forward, with the prog supporting the 'prog metal,'" if that makes sense.  Similarly, while the zany prog instrumental breaks were still present, they felt just a bit more restrained and the songs felt more cohesive to me.  To me, they are just great companion albums that complement and elevate one another in the band's discography.  I'd love to see a tour where they were both heavily featured in the set.

And I guess one other reason my appreciation for the album has grown though the years is that I have just come to appreciate some of the individual songs more than I initially did just over time and seeing/hearing them live in different contexts through the years.  Endless Sacrifice is a perfect example.  I liked the song initially because it was catchy and has some pretty powerful moments, including the chorus.  But I quickly lost interest, mainly due to the instrumental section, and began to feel that the song just wasn't cohesive and felt like a disjointed mess of a lot of cool things that didn't work so well together.  In fact, the last two times it showed up on set lists during the Mangini era, I wasn't really looking forward to it.  But both times, it had a ton of energy and ended up being a highlight of the shows for me.

Anyhow, to sum up my feelings:  VERY good album.  It still ranks near the bottom within the DT discography for me.  But there's a lot that I really enjoy, and it ranks so low only because DT have so many strong albums.

[HOF]

As an album, it's kind of a joyless slog. But the last 3 tracks are a pretty strong run. The only thing I would really seek out from this album these days is Stream of Consciousness.

[hefdaddy42]

I liked it when it came out, and I still like it.  Great album to put on while driving.

[pg1067]

Saturday November 11th marks 20 years since the release of Train of Thought. Your reflections on the album upon this momentous occasion, please.

At the time TOT was released (November 2003), I had an 18-month old at home and another one about to be born in two months.  I was going through second-year lawyer growing pains and had a long-ass commute to work.  All of that meant that my life at the time was super stressful.  Most of my music listening was done in the car during the commute.  After the ultra highs of SFAM and SDOIT (as well as LSFNY), I was pretty disappointed with TOT.  As I Am was ok, but the immediate transition into TDS was a bit much).  Endless Sacrifice is solid, but HYF remains to this day a bottom-5 DT track.  The true gems of this album are at the end.  SOC is the band's best instrumental - by a fairly wide margin.  ITNOG took a bit, but it's such an amazing mini-epic.  I think this says it very well:

As an album, it's kind of a joyless slog. But the last 3 tracks are a pretty strong run.

[The Paddies]

This album represents the time period of my peak fandom, combined with the reality that the band was elongating songs with instrumental gymnastics that I felt detracted from the overall strength of the compositions. I think I had it atop my rotation for over 6 months and consequently, I burned myself out on it. For me, this album and what follows, marks a contrast from classic era DT, and my connection to their music.

Almost exactly the same for me. I didn't really burn out on it myself. But my friends who introduced me to DT years before really started losing interest in the band at this point.

TOT didn't have the same impact on me as SFAM and SDOIT had. However I like the clear direction as others have mentioned. Also, I don't mind the obvious Metallica references. The songs really work in a live setting, as was the main goal for the band with this album. They really succeeded in that. I'm glad they included Vacant as well as it has a unique feeling and is a nice breather between the heavy riffs. Seeing In The Name Of God live with the extended guitar solo at the end is something I'll always cherish.

I've never liked Honor Thy Father though. Still don't. And for my personal taste there are a few too many notes here and there. I like the main riff and a good portion of Stream Of Consciousness but find it too long and not as strong as some shorter instrumentals. This Dying Soul's ending is also quite something. It could've been shorter for my taste.

I hope they include a song or two on their next setlist. I can imagine ITNOG gets picked this time.

[Stadler]

I hope they include a song or two on their next setlist. I can imagine ITNOG gets picked this time.

I want to watch that band perform ITNOG in person.  I find some of those instrumental passages to be other-worldly.

I just noticed (since I had to look up if they played ITNOG when I saw them back in Philly).... I just hope they DON'T play The Count Of Tuscany; I love the song, don't get me wrong, but other than the Astonishing tour, they've played it at EVERY show I've seen of them. 

[Wim Kruithof]

Interesting take bosk. I always felt Train of Thought was much more related to Six Degrees, (influenced by Budokan perhaps) but I do follow you, that both Train of Thought and Octavarium enlighten one another because they came from a total different corner.

[The Paddies]

I hope they include a song or two on their next setlist. I can imagine ITNOG gets picked this time.

I want to watch that band perform ITNOG in person.  I find some of those instrumental passages to be other-worldly.

I just noticed (since I had to look up if they played ITNOG when I saw them back in Philly).... I just hope they DON'T play The Count Of Tuscany; I love the song, don't get me wrong, but other than the Astonishing tour, they've played it at EVERY show I've seen of them. 

Same. If any long epic, please let it be Octavarium (or a new one, if there will be a new one and a great one).

[pg1067]

I want to watch that band perform ITNOG in person.  I find some of those instrumental passages to be other-worldly.

I just noticed (since I had to look up if they played ITNOG when I saw them back in Philly).... I just hope they DON'T play The Count Of Tuscany; I love the song, don't get me wrong, but other than the Astonishing tour, they've played it at EVERY show I've seen of them. 

They only played TCOT once in the six MM-era shows I saw (three of which were anniversary themed), and I saw it once with MP, but I agree.  I'd MUCH rather see ITNOG, which I only saw once (on the 8VM tour).

[bosk1]

Interesting take bosk. I always felt Train of Thought was much more related to Six Degrees, (influenced by Budokan perhaps) but I do follow you, that both Train of Thought and Octavarium enlighten one another because they came from a total different corner.

I can see that.  I mean, it's not like TOT came out of left field from SDOIT.  You can definitely see the "metal" progression from the more metal songs on SDOIT as well as the progression from instrumental sections that had been expanding really since Jordan joined the band.  But at the same time, it is a departure in that SDOIT was much more varied.  Even though it was very experimental for that period in their history, it really had a good balance of the metal vs. prog, heavy vs. light, dark vs. light (the other kind), etc.  The metal side definitely took a step forward from SFAM to SDOIT.  But SDOIT was still a pretty varied, diverse album.  TOT felt like another logical step forward on the metal side, while keeping the entire album dark and heavy. 

[hefdaddy42]

I just hope they DON'T play The Count Of Tuscany

This is me, forever.

[Dedalus]

This album gives me the feeling that they took The Glass Prison and made an entire album with that vibe.

A lot of music longer than it should be, mainly because of the many minutes spent on dueling guitar/keyboard solos (a consequence of having JR in the band I believe). And what's worse, they're not interesting songs. However, I think Vacant is a very beautiful song.

I don't like it at all and I only listen to it occasionally when I revisit the band's entire discography.

[KevShmev]

I wasn't fond of this record when it was first released, as it felt like DT had lost the plot, and I remember the old dt.net was like Hell in a Cell for weeks where anything went as everyone debated and argued over how good this was or wasn't. 

That said, this has aged extremely well for me.  It's not an album I listen to often, but whenever I do, I enjoy almost all of it a lot now, the very end of This Dying Soul being the only WTF for me (even if it does make for a nice dynamic shift when ES begins). 

I still stand by In the Name of God being one of their three best songs of the 21st century, and Honor Thy Father is one of the most underrated DT songs ever.

[jammindude]

I just re-listened over the last week or so.   The highs are high - I forgot how good "In The Name Of God" was - and the lows are... right where I thought they would be.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

[jammindude]

This was an album that IIRC we knew a little bit about before it was released.  Mike had been hyping up the fact that they had played Number of the Beast and Master of Puppets in their entirety on the previous tours, and that it was the goal to create a top to bottom metal masterpiece of that caliber.  With that in mind, I really feel like the album works. Every song is solid, no skip tracks, Vacant is the only "breather" from the metal assault, and even that works as a beautiful introduction to one of their greatest instrumentals.

It's kind of a "one trick pony" album, but knowing that was the goal going in I feel like they succeeded in what they were trying to do.

[Revenge319]

Aside from Honor Thy Father, this is a very strong Dream Theater album. I love all the big instrumental sections on this album; This Dying Soul, Endless Sacrifice, and In the Name of God have some awesome and intense parts. The only kind of weak part of Train of Thought as a whole is that it could have benefitted from a little more variety. I do think there is some variety, but it does greatly emphasize the heavy metal above all else, besides Vacant and maybe Stream of Consciousness. But the heavy metal focus is used to great effect, so it's hard to complain about that. That, and there are plenty of Dream Theater albums that more than make up for this one's approach of being so focused on one singular aspect (Images and Words, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT, Octavarium, ADTOE, The Astonishing, arguably most of their other albums, too).

[pg1067]

This was an album that IIRC we knew a little bit about before it was released.

I wasn't active in any online DT communities at the time, but I do recall hearing about the SOC contest and being excited to hear the results (and then, when I did hear the results several years later, being completely underwhelmed).

[Indiscipline]

From track 1 to 4 an absolute disappointment, from Vacant to ItNoG an enormous joy. Personally, the beginning of DT's worst streak where the peaks skyrocketed but diminished and the increasing valleys reached the earth's core. Furthermore, it came out when I engaged the malevolent creature which would become Wife #1, so maybe I'm bound to remember it darker. Forever.

Even my live experience went a bit sideways when Jordan's rig broke down in the middle of In the Name of God and the show was over, although it lead to the band - same city, following tour - starting the concert with the same song in a classy beyond class move.

[crystalstars17]

Not one of my favorites. It's way down at the bottom of the list somewhere along with Systematic Chaos. Just not my favorite 'side' of the band.

[Lax]

Surprisingly, it took me years to like TOT.
I did the simulisten on IRC with mike portnoy and he quite blew a fuse when every riff was criticized as plagiarism.
On the other hand, if you don't want to hear that, don't explain the DT inspiration corner technique of listening to lots of good and modern cds to write songs...

Nowadays it's hard for me to explain what was wrong to me, maybe it was too metal, sound production, lack of synths, it just felt weak compared to SDOIT that was just once a day everyday in my ears.

I love honor thy father, SOC, in the name of god...But it took years for the album as a whole

[Kyo]

Achieves exactly what it sets out to.

Not really. It was meant to follow the format of a "classic metal album" with 8 songs and a playing time of about 54 minutes à la Master of Puppets. Clearly that didn't work out as things got too long because of excessive instrumental sections, with no reason in the lyrics for why the songs would even need such long sections in the first place. As someone pointed out above - detours into circus music may be just fine and dandy in a wacky prog metal piece, but if you're writing a song about the challenges of long-distance relationships, not so much!

These days I mostly don't like the album. And it's not because it's heavy - I don't mind heavy stuff (the opening bits of This Dying Soul and Honor Thy Father are probably my favorite parts of the album!) and most of it really isn't that heavy anyway. It's because it's rather devoid of melody. And of course because of the disjointedness that almost unavoidably comes with stuffing extended instrumental sections into just about everything that's not a ballad.

And yet, I think Honor Thy Father remains one of the best heavy songs they ever wrote. Despite the admittedly weak chorus.

[HOF]

I think Honor Thy Father is pretty cool musically. The lyrics not so much.

[Trav]

Personally, Honor Thy Father is somewhere near the bottom of DT songs for me. And while I still really like this album, it's the point when maybe the time spent on lyrics started decreasing.  Or they just weren't taken as seriously.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I just re-listened over the last week or so.   The highs are high - I forgot how good "In The Name Of God" was - and the lows are... right where I thought they would be.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

I take this as a compliment seeing as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[The Letter M]

Train Of Thought was the band's latest album when I discovered them in 2004, and so, being their newest release at the time, I spun the HELL out of it, and anticipated the release of Live At Budokan. Consequently, I grew to LOVE this album and its songs over that first year I was discovering the band. It was probably the heaviest album I had heard up to that point, given that my prog journey started with Rush and hadn't really grown beyond Rush and DT at that point. I think TOT was the beginning of my discovery of a lot of other heavier prog rock and metal bands, though in the 20 years since, I haven't really gravitated towards the heavier stuff as much since then.

I still really like TOT when I am in the mood for it, and it's a pretty great DT album (upper-middle pack), but I'll admit I don't listen to it as much as I used to. It was also one of the few albums my then-college-girlfriend liked that I liked, so I guess there's points for that (as she was more into the heavier rock of the era, so maybe the heaviness of TOT helped).

-Marc.