Re: jingle.boy's Roulette v5 - th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-that's all folks!

[Indiscipline]

And Indiscipline, it's Kinganese.

I snatd corectd.

*heart emoticon*

Actually you speak the King's.

[King Postwhore]

I may be dead after what I posted on Facebook to my wife. Lol

[jingle.boy]

Technically I can just send stuff with all Japanese kanji characters and people would have to guess that, right?

Technically, if you finish in the negative, would that mean you lose a victory in the standings?

[jingle.boy]

Forgot to share the playlist:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1u96JUqzTxGp4iRYoaMGKY?si=59b8dca7115e4972
Plus, LJS's submission - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjVx87mossI

Just hammering thru some thoughts and first elements of the writeups

[jingle.boy]

I have every confidence that if you tell Stadler what the deadline is, he'll honor it.

And I wouldn't let you down. Already sent.  ;P)

Well damn... guess I gotta have results in by Friday then.

[jingle.boy]

Results no later than dinner time today (ie, within 9 hours).  Heading out with mrs.jingle in a couple hours to do a handful of things.  Maybe I get them up before then, maybe not.

I'll give it to you guys for putting out a strong effort with the 'unpredictability' aspect.  When going to research some of these bands, a few of them were not listed at metal-archives.

Remember, the Quality scoring is like a test grade... so not everyone is an A-student.  B is a very good grade.  C is respectable - especially when some of you have D musical tastes!  jk.  This was quite a strong round.

Highest quality score - 9 (A)
Lowest quality score - 6.5 (C)

[TAC]

Lowest quality score - 6.5 (C)

So I get a 15.5 out of 20! 

[ariich]

Highest quality score - 9 (A)
Lowest quality score - 6.5 (C)

A much narrower range than either the anonymity or unpredictability scores.

Interesting for future rounds...

[Dr. DTVT]

It almost might be worth sending unpredictable crap to game the system (does and makes a new band)

[LithoJazzoSphere]

There is such heavy weighting on being solved last that there's a strong temptation to just look for half-decent songs made up of foreign languages, symbols, and made-up or exotic words.  I dunno if that was the intention, because you'd still get the anonymity/unpredictability factor from trying to guess who sent what. 

[Evermind]

It almost might be worth sending unpredictable crap to game the system (does and makes a new band)

I thought so but in the end decided to stick to what Chad might like.

If I'm way behind after Round 5-6 I'll just send growls

[Evermind]

There is such heavy weighting on being solved last that there's a strong temptation to just look for half-decent songs made up of foreign languages, symbols, and made-up or exotic words.  I dunno if that was the intention, because you'd still get the anonymity/unpredictability factor from trying to guess who sent what.

Chad hates foreign-language vocals I think, so not sure if he will give it a pass. I can send tons of Russian metal bands though 

[TAC]

There is such heavy weighting on being solved last that there's a strong temptation to just look for half-decent songs made up of foreign languages, symbols, and made-up or exotic words.  I dunno if that was the intention, because you'd still get the anonymity/unpredictability factor from trying to guess who sent what.

Chad hates foreign-language vocals I think, so not sure if he will give it a pass. I can send tons of Russian metal bands though 

Gorky Park!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I'm still just trying to send the best music possible at the moment, but I'm just pointing out that the incentives are there to start going off the deep end.   

[Indiscipline]

I predict after this round everybody is going to get very predictable with their unpredictable submissions.

[Evermind]

There is such heavy weighting on being solved last that there's a strong temptation to just look for half-decent songs made up of foreign languages, symbols, and made-up or exotic words.  I dunno if that was the intention, because you'd still get the anonymity/unpredictability factor from trying to guess who sent what.

Chad hates foreign-language vocals I think, so not sure if he will give it a pass. I can send tons of Russian metal bands though 

Gorky Park!

I've got Russian metal with growls. Would probably get a negative score.

[jingle.boy]

I thought so but in the end decided to stick to what Chad might like.

I'm still just trying to send the best music possible at the moment,

These guys get it 

The intention is definitely NOT for anyone to send what they know is/will be "mediocre" music just to earn the intangible points.  If you're just in this to "win", by all means, send crap .  Like I said in the OP though, if it's stuff that I truly don't like, I don't need a stack ranking system to hand out a 1 or a 2  .  The intent of the intangible scoring elements is to push everyone outside your normal Roulette comfort zone.  It doesn't take foreign languages or symbols to be solved last.  When I sent Tim Psychework/Viipuri, it wasn't because it was a Sweedish song title, it was because it was a kickass song that I thought Tim would like.

First rule of roulette's - have fun.  It ain't gonna be any fun for me to listen to shit, and it ain't gonna be any fun for you to get a low failing score on quality - when quality is something (by-and-large) that you each have some manner of control over.  You (royal) can't control how fast other people are going to solve and match your songs.  If someone solves and/or matches your song quickly (ala Puppies and Stads this round), that's not on you.  If you send me stuff I don't like ... that *is* on you.

Heading out soon, so results will be in 6-8 hours.  I'll try to get 'em in before Ruslan's bedtime. 

P.S.  I'm thinking I may have a way to continue to give an end-of-roulette "bonus" that will continue to incent ya'll to want to send quality music.  Got to noodle on this to see if it might bring everyone back to focusing on quality first.
P.P.S. In Hangman, symbols/punctuation need not be guessed - they will be auto-filled.

[King Postwhore]

Would a bottle of Macallan Sherry Oak Scotch Single Malt 12 Year help with scoring? 

[TAC]

Would a bottle of Macallan Sherry Oak Scotch Single Malt 12 Year help with scoring? 

Only if served in a ladies' robe.

[ariich]

Sherry cask single malt scotch is one of my favourite beverages, good shout.

[Evermind]

I still plan to check out this round playlist. Will probably get to it tomorrow and post my thoughts also.

[King Postwhore]

Would a bottle of Macallan Sherry Oak Scotch Single Malt 12 Year help with scoring? 

Only if served in a ladies' robe.

Done.   

Sherry cask single malt scotch is one of my favourite beverages, good shout.

I love my bourbons in sherry casks as well.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Yeah, I'm just trying to observe how different it can be between what you design in your head and what the actual outcomes are when factoring in how the rules incentivize players.  And given what a crapshoot trying to guess what people will like can be anyway, there's definitely some potential motivation to hope a slight drop in quality can be more than made up for in guessability. 

[ariich]

Yeah I wasn't at all suggesting people send Chad stuff he'll hate.

But sending something completely obscure and impossible to guess that gets a 6/10 is arguably beneficial, score-wise.

[King Postwhore]

 

Just playing Chad's game Rich.  Do you remember when I had Chad as my Secret Santa?  I sent him a bottle and I had it on the package as a Lava Lamp. Chad had to make a second video opening the second box it came in. 

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, I'm just trying to observe how different it can be between what you design in your head and what the actual outcomes are when factoring in how the rules incentivize players.  And given what a crapshoot trying to guess what people will like can be anyway, there's definitely some potential motivation to hope a slight drop in quality can be more than made up for in guessability.

On your last point, I think that theory got shot down with how quick Puppies' and lonestar's songs were guessed this round.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Maybe they just didn't do it right, and TAC did. 

[lonestar]

 

[jingle.boy]

Maybe they just didn't do it right, and TAC did. 

The scores will tell the story. 

Results momentarily .... (like 20 minutes or so)

[wolfking]

There is such heavy weighting on being solved last that there's a strong temptation to just look for half-decent songs made up of foreign languages, symbols, and made-up or exotic words.  I dunno if that was the intention, because you'd still get the anonymity/unpredictability factor from trying to guess who sent what.

I kinda said this from the start.  Send obscure enough bands that are never really mentioned here yet still has quality elements Chad may like.  It's a balancing act for sure.

[TAC]

Maybe they just didn't do it right, and TAC did. 

Don't drag me into this!

[jingle.boy]

The below is reveled in order of the Quality score.  Full standings at the bottom of the post.  Claim moral victories where you can. 

Lonestar: Joseph Magazine / Night of the Red Sky
The Dream Theater influence is strong here - like slap me in the face strong.  There were about 4-5 times throughout this song I'm thinking "boy, this is almost a rip off of <insert DT song here>".  There was some Shattered Fortress, Illumination Theory, YtseJam, and In the Name of God.  I'm sure Indi would find a few more if he gave a play-by-play on this one.  But I digress.  This was the fucking tits.  It's musical wankery at it's finest.  I mean, the guitar and keyboard noodling, the rich tones, marvellous musicianship, and so many different soundscapes stitched together magnificently.  *chef's kiss*

Scores
Quality: 9
Unpredictability: 3.5
Anonymity: 2

---------------------------
Indiscipline: Michael Schenker Group / Lost Horizons
So, I tried to follow the MSG discog discussion back in 2020, but fell behind, and then found it to be too daunting of a task to keep up - especially when so many albums were not on Spotify and I had to go hunting to have a listen of the albums (usually on YT which is a pain in the ass to do off my phone).  I did listen to the s/t album, but must've not really been giving it my full attention, because  .  Naturally, this sounds like an album made in 1980 (I know - BECAUSE IT WAS!), but even as a "2000 Remaster", it sounded dated as hell.  Regardless I'm a fogey, so that doesn't bother me much at all, and there is some un-fucking-real axe-work - man can he pull some serious fucking emotion out of those six little strings.  The lyrics and vocals take a back seat to the shreddery of Schenker - though I did enjoy Barden much more than I remembered when I was running thru some of these albums 3 years ago.  I doubt Tim/Kade/Bill are going to be bothered their submissions fell behind this tune.

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 1
Anonymity: 2.5

---------------------------
Puppies: Days Before Tomorrow / Wasted Years Part II: Sleepwalking
You've definitely been paying attention.  This couldn't be any further from triple face plant you pulled with The Mars Volta/Novembre/Alkaloid.  This song was somewhat formulaic, but it's a good formula.  Strong vocals, nice mix of acoustic/electric guitar, smooth and comforting atmosphere provided by the keys, nice melodic chorus with sweet vocal harmonies, a nice mix of instrumentation ... and it all flowed together seamlessly.  My only gripe -  the drums sound rather anorexic.  I think I would've liked it even more if there was a beefier sound there, and the outro went on a liiiiittle bit longer than necessary.

Scores
Quality: 8.5
Unpredictability: 0.5
Anonymity: 3

---------------------------
Litho: Dave Bainbridge / Love Remains
Upon investigation, it is indeed Damian Wilson - that's some jingle.boy quality cheating there .  Unfortunately, he's sparsely used throughout the 13 minutes here - longest track of the round (by far), and the most "progressive" (also, by far).  There's a lot to digest here, and it gets a little choppy at times with the transitions between the vocal passages and the instrumental wanking passages - and man was there a lot of instrumental wankery.  Luckily, it was in a mostly good (think Transatlantic or Spock's Beard) way; not an "enough already" (think, Haken or Porcupine Tree) kinda way.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 4
Anonymity: 3.5

---------------------------
Wolfking: Hollow Hour / The Canyon
Man, with the description you gave me, I was expecting some serious soft-cock shit.  You don't dig this anymore?  I mean, it's pretty heavy (what is this, post-core something or other - cuz it throws off vibes much like The Dear Hunter, but if the Dear Hunter was channelling some Accept or classic 80s/90s metal), and it was a really fun listen (ala Dynazty).  Quick to the point, doesn't waste any time or stay past its welcome.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 5
Anonymity: 5

---------------------------
Stadler: Sweet / Fox on the Run
I've very much heard this song many many times - it still gets fairly regular classic rock radio airtime.  But honestly, I didn't know this was Sweet - gun to my head, I'd have said it was ELO.  I could've swore Sweet was a one-hit wonder ... but I guess they're a two-hit wonder .  Quality score... good stuff. I think you did get stiffed on the Unpredictability points - Litho was on a tear solving some of the first few entries - but I mean, it was a no brainer to match you to this one.  You gotta up your game.  Not quite an A, but a very strong B+, and I'll round up.

Scores
Quality: 8
Unpredictability: 1.5
Anonymity: 0.5

---------------------------
King: Advent Horizon / How Did it Get So Good
I was only so-so on the album after quite a few DTF'rs pimped this hard when it first dropped.  This was one of the songs that I kept in my 'best-of' 2023 playlist.  But with only a couple of listens of it under my belt, it was something I could allow.  Production is A, musicianship is fantastic, vocals are great - just a beautiful track.  But beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.  The repetitiveness of the title through the middle started to get more and more annoying with each listen.  Otherwise, this had a real Presto Ballet, Dec Burke, It Bites vibe to it, but with a bit more edge than any of those acts deliver.  The more I played it, the more that the main riff/melody/vocal line of the song title started wearing thin, and was just a little bit too repetitive.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 2
Anonymity: 1

---------------------------
Evermind: Angtoria / Confide in Me
This starts out fucking hot... and then the vocals. First, I just was totally not expecting a female lead.  As you know, this in-and-of-itself isn't an issue - I love a good female lead.  But second - and here's the issue - she just didn't do much for me.  There was no edge to her voice (like Maggy Luyten or Ida Haukland, or what LJS gave in the qualifier); she's not operatic or bold (like Floor or Diane VG); she isn't a vocal goddess (like AVG or Daisa Munhoz).  She's just kinda there.  Not bad, but not entirely memorable.  Musically, it was quite excellent.  This was trying to be a B+, but I felt I had to round down.

Scores
Quality: 7.5
Unpredictability: 2.5
Anonymity: 1.5

---------------------------
Dr. DTVT: Figure of Speechless / Tunnel at the End of the Light
Definitely Bruce vibes here for sure - but not in a Hallowed/Rime kinda way.  More in the way that I was lamenting in the Top 50 bands thread a few days back.  I mean, until I looked it up, didn't even recognize this as Ray Alder - and it sure ain't Theories of Flight Ray Alder.  I never would've guessed this was him on the mic until I "did my research"  .  The involvement of Sherinian and Bumblefoot should've made this one more enjoyable than it was.  As I said in my impression, the music was really good (and the production was excellent as well).  It was just missing a certain oomph.  This kind of mid-tempo, low energy metal (ie, "plodder" in my ears) is hit and miss with me, and after the first few listens, this was more of a miss - let's call it a foul tip.  This improved with multiple listens, and may have might have worked itself up to a bunt-single with another 1/2 or full point if I was to run this round for a few more days - it already gained a full point from my first impression of it.

Scores
Quality: 7
Unpredictability: 3
Anonymity: 4

---------------------------
TAC: Ekphrasis / A Maze In Oneiroi II
If I was to describe this song in one sentence, it would be "For fans of Haken".  And that sums up its score and placement here.  This is a third track that has a shit ton of technical wankery ... but my ears are hearing it in a Haken way.  It just didn't flow together terribly well.  The intro had way too many time changes making it sound VERY choppy, and the keys/piano were almost antagonistic to the main melody.  It wasn't until the 2 minute mark that things settled down.  When I went searching for some details on the band, I got the literal definition of the word "Ekphrasis":  Greek for the written description of a work of art produced as a rhetorical or literary exercise ... vivid, often dramatic, verbal description of a visual work of art, either real or imagined.  Seems about right - I gather you imagined this would do well, when in reality, it didn't.  Progarchives describes them as "Eclectic Prog".  Boy, ain't that the truth - as if Prog wasn't already eclectic enough at times, these guys had to amp it up that much more.  Which shouldn't be surprising, since they cite Frank Zappa as an influence. 

I suspect that - like Nospun - my enjoyment of this will improve with age... if given the chance.  But for the moment, I'm just not feelin it.

Scores
Quality: 6.5
Unpredictability: 4.5
Anonymity: 4.5

---------------------------
Standings:
Wolfking - 18
Litho - 15.5
TAC - 15.5
Lonestar - 14.5
Dr. DTVT - 14
Puppies - 12
Indiscipline - 12
Evermind - 11.5
King - 10.5
Stadler - 10.5

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Quality score is all that matters to me 

I'm still trying to go for more obscure acts though...

[Stadler]

You know, at some point you fuckers ought to recognize greatness when you're looking at it.   What is great, you ask?  How no matter WHAT the format, what the grading gtechnique, or what the combinations there are, I ALWAYS find a way to send bands that are quality bands that most people have heard of and yet... inevitably end up in last place.   WTF. 

[lonestar]

Submits best song.....is in 4th place...


No matter, definitely claiming a victory. You already got my next round bro.