Mike Portnoy's DRUMEO video series

[porcacultor]

Not to say it's a 1:1 comparison, but it's pretty possible to imagine how MP would tackle at least some of the MM-era material by referring to the Glen Monturi covers.

Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjh8Tawwbn0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssw5YHsAnug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEoSZMs9NYk

And there are more. And I insist, this isn't to say "it's going to sound exactly like this", but I believe y'all get my point (namely: with a few adjustments, MP can handle it).

[nobloodyname]

Right? It's like people think MP is some dude that just randomly got the gig

As I've said before, there are some people here talking as if MP has only ever played a 4/4 stock beat his entire career. It's utterly absurd and totally befuddling.

[JMSE]

I think it's silly to think MP can't play a DT song - even if some details are too intricate he'd find a way to add his twist. The difference in 2010 was that DT needed MM to play all songs exactly as they are but I think in 2024 they wouldn't care if MP ads his flare to a song from the MM years.

And to be fair, MM is a drummer's drummer - a lot of his intricacies are genius but the casual fan won't be able to tell played differently.

[gmillerdrake]

Yeah, but he adds stuff as well, so you get a nice live experience.

100%. He's captivating to watch live.

[MinistroRaven]

Mike Portnoy Plays "Under A Glass Moon"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QPg-Rc0jb8

[Dream Team]

Yup, that's how you play that alright.

[emtee]

Still my favorite drummer of all time! Bravo.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It is stunning to me - not just about Mike, but in general - how falsehoods and misunderstandings just KEEP getting perpetuated.

Mike P. said he doesn't practice IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE, doing skills and drills. He noted in that and in other interviews that he actually plays a LOT, and does a lot to learn new material and make sure he can do the gigs he's signed up for.  In my book that is, loosely, "practice".   I think we're grossly underestimating his abilities here; there is absolutely no doubt that he will bring the songs into his own style and make it work for him, and I certainly do not expect what we hear is going to be a replication of what MM played, but I think the knee-jerk negative assumption that it's simply because he CAN'T is unfounded and unproven.

I was looking for a place to write this anyway, but since you mention the social media response, I think this is as good a place as any: I recently expanded my presence (unintentionally) on Facebook, and it is STUNNING to me how much negativity there is about and around Mike Portnoy.  I don't know if it's just normal social media ignorance and rudeness (which by "normal", I mean seems to be the normal course of business on social media; what a cesspool) or if there is something more, but most of it doesn't seem all that constructive, and rather comes off as gratuitous and/or petty.  I found a lot of it unfair and unreasonable.

Right, except that is what is required in order to play the more advanced limb independence parts in the MM era, so unless it is already something in MP's wheelhouse - which it is not based on a very large body of work we all have access to - I am comfortable inferring it would take him a TON of traditionally defined practice in order to play them. It's not a matter of different definitions of the word practice. I think MP's own statement regarding the issue accurately captures the definition so no need for me to repeat it.

There seems to be this implied belief some fans have, that because you are a legendary drummer (which he is) you can do anything the next guy can do. That is not how technique works. If you have great technical ability you have developed it by meticulously drilling exercises over a period of time. There is no way around that. John Petrucci did not become a great alternate picker by just being generally an awesome guy. He drilled exercises for hours on end and used those techniques in the music we all love. You know the saying 'you are what you practice'? Musicians tend to sound how they practice.

How might tougher MM era songs come out if he even chooses to play them? One poster mentioned the Glen Monturi covers. I think that's a possible roadmap for MP. Glen is simplifying certain sections but the covers sound fine. But we may have a good clue to how this is going to go...when Mike was playing with Tony Macalpine, Billy Sheehan and Derek they did a cover of a Planet X song called Apocalypse. Here is the cover Mike posted on his YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Ysr2wYcEs

I looked for the studio recording of Virgil playing the same part and found a live version with bad audio quality and a fan cover of a section that occurs 1:25 into Mike's cover. The fan cover of this one section is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOQzp0ptQnM and the longer live version is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCE4vWh2qE.

Now I am not going to pretend I have the drum vocabulary to tell you everything going on but in this section I think it is pretty apparent how different the two versions feel. If you compare Virgil's part to Mike's cover you can hear (and see) that the latter is very stripped down. Mike is playing it all with his hands and skipping the isolated rhythm Virgil plays with the right hand. If I am correct in analyzing the cover, in bar 1 Virgil is playing the snare with the left hand on the first beat of a 16th note grouping, then on a second and then on a third. The feet are playing the remaining notes in the grouping. At the same time the right hand is playing a steady quarter note rhythm on top. This is fairly advanced limb independence and there are many similar examples from the Mangini era. Portnoy does not play in this way based on any recording of him that I am aware of. Again, NOT saying the guy isn't a great drummer.

Maybe you like Mike's version better and that's cool. There is no rule that we have to all like the more complicated thing but I just think it's having blinders on to pretend that when it comes to technical ability, MP is in the same tier as Mangini, or most of the guys brought into the audition for that matter. If he can't play the hard sections of X Y or Z does it mean he 'cant play the song'? You can decide for yourself. My view is 'not necessarily' but I think some of this stuff is just going to have to be very simplified like what we have here. I personally feel that many times when you simplify a part that was put there for a reason, you miss something but yeah, I get that I am in the minority here. And I am fine with that.

EDIT: more than happy for the drummers on the forum to chime in and offer their 2c, especially if they have a knack for learning/analyzing/practicing these types of parts

[Puppies_On_Acid]

MP is going to bring the songs into his own style and make it work for him but there is no chance this is going to be a replication of what MM played. Some songs are going to transition really well like Paralyzed and others just aren't (Alien, Awaken the Master, View, Pale Blue Dot). Doesn't mean they won't sound great but I have a hard time imaging a faithful rendition of certain sections. There are a lot of good MM era covers where guys are just playing something different at certain time stamps and it still works. As for the other stuff like the one handed single strokes and crazy fast fills....it's just going to be MP's own flair. As it should be.

I honestly don't recall anything all that difficult in Pale Blue Dot. There's one sort of fast fill on the roto-toms I think, plus a few odd meters and time changes. The other 3 songs you mention there, I'd have to give them a listen again to refresh my memory, but I don't see Portnoy having any difficulty playing Pale Blue Dot.

[The Letter M]

To me, MP is to MM as Alan White is to Bill Bruford. Alan could play the songs in Yes, but there were always differences, some subtle and others very apparent, as well as very different approaches, but drummers and music fans worldwide wouldn't say neither is legendary. They just had different styles and approaches to the same music.

I think MP will do what MP does best and try to fit the songs into his style. No matter what, some fans will like it and some won't but if I'm being honest, I would be excited just to see him try and see what he'd do with the MM-era songs, much in the same way I was excited to see MM play DT songs when he first joined.

-Marc.

[Mosh]

To me, MP is to MM as Alan White is to Bill Bruford. Alan could play the songs in Yes, but there were always differences, some subtle and others very apparent, as well as very different approaches, but drummers and music fans worldwide wouldn't say neither is legendary. They just had different styles and approaches to the same music.

I think MP will do what MP does best and try to fit the songs into his style. No matter what, some fans will like it and some won't but if I'm being honest, I would be excited just to see him try and see what he'd do with the MM-era songs, much in the same way I was excited to see MM play DT songs when he first joined.

-Marc.

I have the exact same feeling. There were some MM interpretations of MP songs that I really enjoyed and there were times where I missed MP. I imagine it will be the same when MP plays MM songs but more than anything I'm excited to hear them. The nitpicking over something we haven't even heard yet is silly.

[brakkum]

The nitpicking over something we haven't even heard yet is silly.

Preach. This kind of stuff is exhausting.

[Setlist Scotty]

Maybe you like Mike's version better and that's cool. There is no rule that we have to all like the more complicated thing but I just think it's having blinders on to pretend that when it comes to technical ability, MP is in the same tier as Mangini, or most of the guys brought into the audition for that matter. If he can't play the hard sections of X Y or Z does it mean he 'cant play the song'? You can decide for yourself. My view is 'not necessarily' but I think some of this stuff is just going to have to be very simplified like what we have here. I personally feel that many times when you simplify a part that was put there for a reason, you miss something but yeah, I get that I am in the minority here. And I am fine with that.

MP will be the first to tell you he is *not* at the same level of technical ability as Mangini, Donati, Minnemann or Lang – he has said so himself in interviews from the past (before he left DT), so let's put that argument to bed once and for all.

Yes, he will never nail what MM does exactly, and he will probably simplify certain things just as we have already talked about in looking at him doing Apocalypse. You definitely seem to be the type that won't enjoy what MP brings to the table regardless, but I think most of us will be happy with it. I never took issue with how he did Apocalypse, so I imagine the same will be true with MM-era tracks. And even if they are somewhat simplified by comparison, I will gladly give up the more complicated drum performances for everything else that MP brings to the table.
 

There were some MM interpretations of MP songs that I really enjoyed and there were times where I missed MP. I imagine it will be the same when MP plays MM songs but more than anything I'm excited to hear them. The nitpicking over something we haven't even heard yet is silly.

Great way to sum it up. 

[KevShmev]

I was looking for a place to write this anyway, but since you mention the social media response, I think this is as good a place as any: I recently expanded my presence (unintentionally) on Facebook, and it is STUNNING to me how much negativity there is about and around Mike Portnoy.  I don't know if it's just normal social media ignorance and rudeness (which by "normal", I mean seems to be the normal course of business on social media; what a cesspool) or if there is something more, but most of it doesn't seem all that constructive, and rather comes off as gratuitous and/or petty.  I found a lot of it unfair and unreasonable.

If talking about his work as a musician, I agree.  If talking about his behavior over the years (much of which was talked about here and I am not going to litigate again), I do not.  He earned a lot of the criticism that came his way in the 00s and early 10s, but to his credit, he seems to have mellowed out in the last few years, and as a former vocal critic myself of Mike Portnoy the man (but not the musician), I feel that is a good thing.  I honestly feel that working with a class act like Neal Morse for so many years had a big effect on him.

[Mosh]

MP will be the first to tell you he is *not* at the same level of technical ability as Mangini, Donati, Minnemann or Lang – he has said so himself in interviews from the past (before he left DT), so let's put that argument to bed once and for all.

Yes, he will never nail what MM does exactly, and he will probably simplify certain things just as we have already talked about in looking at him doing Apocalypse. You definitely seem to be the type that won't enjoy what MP brings to the table regardless, but I think most of us will be happy with it. I never took issue with how he did Apocalypse, so I imagine the same will be true with MM-era tracks. And even if they are somewhat simplified by comparison, I will gladly give up the more complicated drum performances for everything else that MP brings to the table.
 

Good call on Apocalypse, I totally forgot he played that in PSMS. A great example of Portnoy playing a drum part that was originally made by a technically superior drummer and probably more complex than anything he would come up with himself. He totally did it justice back then and it never felt simplified to me.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

MP will be the first to tell you he is *not* at the same level of technical ability as Mangini, Donati, Minnemann or Lang – he has said so himself in interviews from the past (before he left DT), so let's put that argument to bed once and for all.

Yes, he will never nail what MM does exactly, and he will probably simplify certain things just as we have already talked about in looking at him doing Apocalypse. You definitely seem to be the type that won't enjoy what MP brings to the table regardless, but I think most of us will be happy with it. I never took issue with how he did Apocalypse, so I imagine the same will be true with MM-era tracks. And even if they are somewhat simplified by comparison, I will gladly give up the more complicated drum performances for everything else that MP brings to the table.
 
Great way to sum it up. 

I've been enjoying a lot of pre-MM Dream Theater for years so I am sure I won't just automatically hate everything he does on DT16. I'm a big supporter of the Winery Dogs and Flying Colors too. It's not that I don't like MP's style. I just got used to a different type of drummer over the last 12 years - one who is more similar as a musician to the other members of the band. Am I super happy that now we are going to the old lineup? No, but I think I get it and I will live with it if the music is good.

Doesn't mean I have something against the way MP plays. I dont think my analysis of his playing is unfair and I am definitely not saying whatever he does will not be good enough, the same way many fans refused to accept MM regardless of what he did. (Not accusing anyone here of that). I felt like his drumming in DT got stale and repetitive. Hope to hear something different this time around.

[Adami]

I'm curious.

Moving aside from the "can MP do what MM did at the technical level" thing, which is not hard to figure out. How many fans will care much if MP changes up some of that stuff but keeps the general vibe/beat?

I just wonder if people will be truly truly upset that MP's beat/fill was different but similar. Because we're in other thread saying (minus a few who think he has no issues at all) that JLB SHOULD be changing things up because of limitations. So I would think that if we're fine with JLB shaking up vocal melodies, then we'd be fine with MP shaking up some drum parts.


Plus, I doubt DT will play the songs where MM went completely nuts.

[hefdaddy42]

I would hope most people wouldn't get upset about MP playing a part differently than MM did.  Whether he is able to accurately replicate it or not, it would be a little weird to me if he didn't bring some of himself to those songs and change some things here or there.  MM did that with some MP parts, JR certainly has done that with some prior keyboardist parts.

[TAC]

  MM did that with some MP parts

I realized that I never really paid much attention to it. I think it's going to be a non issue going forward.



MP said that he's going through the MM material to see which songs he feels or speaks to him, or something like that, and I think that's important and why I'm confident that it'll be a non issue. If JP says pick two or three that YOU want to play, I think that bodes much better than JP handing MP a handful of songs and telling him to learn them, though MP is such a professional, I'm not sure we'd even know the difference anyway.

[hefdaddy42]

MP said that he's going through the MM material to see which songs he feels or speaks to him, or something like that, and I think that's important and why I'm confident that it'll be a non issue. If JP says pick two or three that YOU want to play, I think that bodes much better than JP handing MP a handful of songs and telling him to learn them, though MP is such a professional, I'm not sure we'd even know the difference anyway.

I agree.

[gzarruk]

With MP handling the setlists again, I don't think he'd pick any songs he couldn't replicate well or at least good enough (and I believe there are many of those from the MM stuff), so I wouldn't worry about that too much. I think the lead vocals should be a much bigger concern for the shows moving forward

[TAC]

I think the lead vocals should be a much bigger concern for the shows moving forward

Well, yeah, that's the elephant in the room and goes without saying.

[ZirconBlue]

Well, yeah, that's the elephant in the room and goes without saying.

And, yet, it seems rare for a day to go by without it being said in one of these threads.

[Setlist Scotty]

I just wonder if people will be truly truly upset that MP's beat/fill was different but similar. Because we're in other thread saying (minus a few who think he has no issues at all) that JLB SHOULD be changing things up because of limitations. So I would think that if we're fine with JLB shaking up vocal melodies, then we'd be fine with MP shaking up some drum parts.

Great point Adami!    If we're all willing to give JL a pass because he has to change things up live since he is no longer capable of doing what he did on the album, why shouldn't the same thing be true for MP? Will keep this reasoning in mind when I see the same argument pop up in other threads and especially Facebook.

[hefdaddy42]

Great point Adami!    If we're all willing to give JL a pass because he has to change things up live since he is no longer capable of doing what he did on the album, why shouldn't the same thing be true for MP? Will keep this reasoning in mind when I see the same argument pop up in other threads and especially Facebook.

[TAC]

The two subjects aren't in any way related.

[Setlist Scotty]

The two subjects aren't in any way related.

Yes they are.
• JL isn't capable of doing exactly what he did for some songs, so he has to alter the melodies so that he can do something that will still be acceptable.
• MP isn't capable of doing exactly what MM did for some songs, so he has to alter the parts so that he can do something that will still be acceptable.

[TAC]

Just because you sub out JLB for MP doesn't not make them equal animals.

[devieira73]

I'm with Tim on that. JBL can't do it, because of physical limitations/age and probably there isn't nothing he can do about it. On the other hand, if MP was interested, he could learn new drum techniques to play MM parts more faithfully. (and personally I'm ok with MP playing with his level of skills and recreating things with his own style)

[devieira73]

But... we all are assuming that MP won't make an extra effort to play Mangini parts more in detail. Maybe this time he can be more motived just to prove the doubters wrong. And I think some songs, like BAI, he already can nail it perfectly. Again, if he wants, he just need to learn in detail 2 or 3 Mangini songs for this tour. Maybe it's just a matter of choosing wisely.

[gborland]

JBL can't do it, because of physical limitations/age and probably there isn't nothing he can do about it.

JLB can't do it because he is lazy and complacent and refuses to plan ahead by altering melodies or getting in shape, instead preferring to screech his way through his live performances.

[devieira73]

I meant JLB singing the songs like they were originally recorded.

[gborland]

I meant JLB singing the songs like they were originally recorded.

Ah, OK.   

[MinistroRaven]

JLB can't do it because he is lazy and complacent and refuses to plan ahead by altering melodies or getting in shape, instead preferring to screech his way through his live performances.

[geeeemo]

..and the JLB saga continues on the MP drumeo thread...