DREAM THEATER - Europe leg of the 40th Anniversary Tour 2024-2025

[Glasser]

Then it seems you don't know well DT fanbase. Pretty amount of fans listen DT and being a fan because of James in the first place. I, for one, quit listening if James leaves.

Been a fan before James was there. I love his voice but if he couldn't do it anymore and they decide to replace him I am sure they would do it right. I don't see them continuing as DT if that happened but I wouldn't bail on them if they did.

*** When I first heard WDaDU I listened non stop and that was DT for me. When James joined it was new and had to get used to it.

[TAC]

Been a fan before James was there. I love his voice but if he couldn't do it anymore and they decide to replace him I am sure they would do it right. I don't see them continuing as DT if that happened but I wouldn't bail on them if they did.

It's not that I would bail on them, but it would matter who they bring in. I bailed on Redemption because I cannot stand Tom Englund, so the choice indeed matters.

I have way more history with DT obviously, but picking the wrong singer would definitely affect how I view things going forward.

[Glasser]

It's not that I would bail on them, but it would matter who they bring in. I bailed on Redemption because I cannot stand Tom Englund, so the choice indeed matters.

I have way more history with DT obviously, but picking the wrong singer would definitely affect how I view things going forward.

As you know I have the same long history with DT, and at one point it was personal. DT was Charlie for me until James joined. I love Tom's voice but not for DT.

[Stadler]

I hear you, but boy did we say the same thing during the lockdowns in 2020-2021. They basically didn't tour for about a year and a half but instead of getting James in great shape we got what we saw live in 2022-2023.

Not trying to be pessimistic or rain in anyone's parade, but I think we shouldn't approach this with false high expectations for the vocal department.

That, and I wouldn't make any predictions about "they won't continue if...".   

I know "speculate" is what we do, and that's fun; hell, I'm part of it too.  But the reality is, there are NO irreplaceable members in ANY band.  Go look at the Rush thread.   It's not "Bonham" that is keeping Zeppelin from being a touring unit.  I've only ever seen Pink Floyd WITHOUT Roger Waters. I can go on.  If James did one more tour and said "my family calls, I'm done", there's not one person here - well, there may be ONE, or two - that can say with any certainty whether DT is over as a touring/recording unit.   We're going to be facing this at some point with Jordan. 

Whether anyone actually stays on as a fan, is a very different story.  It didn't happen as badly with DT, but I definitely will bail on a band if I don't like a member, and "singers" are a different breed for that, for sure.  To this day, I've never purchased and do not listen to the Priest without Halford.  Although I've warmed to him after seeing him live with the SchenkerFest tour, I bailed on Michael Schenker when he got rid of Gary Barden. 

[crystalstars17]

Whether anyone actually stays on as a fan, is a very different story.  It didn't happen as badly with DT, but I definitely will bail on a band if I don't like a member, and "singers" are a different breed for that, for sure.  To this day, I've never purchased and do not listen to the Priest without Halford.  Although I've warmed to him after seeing him live with the SchenkerFest tour, I bailed on Michael Schenker when he got rid of Gary Barden.

This, 💯 . I will never, ever, ever see Queensryche without Geoff Tate, not even if I was given the tickets for free (and anyone who knows me would know better than to offer them to me anyway). There is a different kind of loyalty to a singer and their place in a band you love. I don't think we can strive to define it, either, it just is.

[MoraWintersoul]

I have a feeling that when the next man wants to retire, Dream Theater is done, and another project pops up centered around JP and MP. JMX would be in it too if he's not the next man to quit and if he's eager to continue after DT (but out of all of them, he's been the closest to being a DT-only guy, so maybe he would hang it up with the band). If we're going by conventional wisdom of age and how long they've worked in music professionally, JR and JLB are most likely to retire first, but I can see the one that didn't retire carrying on in this new project as well. I see JP and MP as least likely to quit because they only seem to be amping up their activities in the music business with no plans of stopping. JR seems to be in a similar mindset and as sharp as ever, but the oldest still working rockstars now are all past 75ish and slowly reducing their activities, and JR is close to that ceiling of age at 67.

They've played with a number of singers and instrumentalists they liked, so that lineup is likely to fill up fast and be 60-80% DT, so it will be as if they just replaced the member(s), but they will be able to say they retired DT with the original lineup.

[ZirconBlue]

Not saying it would happen but if he was replaced I'm pretty sure they are not losing a single fan.

James was, and still is, the main draw for me to DT.  As others have said, if he leaves of his own accord, I'll give his successor a chance.  But if he gets kicked out, I will be done with DT.

[SwedishGoose]

James was, and still is, the main draw for me to DT.  As others have said, if he leaves of his own accord, I'll give his successor a chance.  But if he gets kicked out, I will be done with DT.

I think this is where I'm at too....
Without JLB it will not feel like DT.

Anyone else could theoretically be replaced and it could still feel like DT.
But replacing the voice is like replacing the guitarplayer with a fluteplayer.

[Ben_Jamin]

There's bands with dramatic vocalist changes I can think of.

Kamelot
Queensryche
Redemption
Journey


Then there are bands who's vocalist was so integral they had to change name brands

Queen
Sublime

[DTwwbwMP]

James was, and still is, the main draw for me to DT.  As others have said, if he leaves of his own accord, I'll give his successor a chance.  But if he gets kicked out, I will be done with DT.

JLB "the MAIN draw"? I honestly don't think that that statement makes ANY LOGICAL SENSE!

[gzarruk]

I don't think blind loyalty to anyone in a band is a good thing (for the most part). IMO quality should always come before nostalgia. Sure, anyone is free to like/dislike a band based on who's on the roster, but wishing for DT (or any band) to be done only because x member leaves or gets replaced is just a very selfish, short-sighted mindset. "I don't like it, therefore they're done. This is not X band anymore". That's the same reason why we say a lot of people saying DT was no longer DT because MP wasn't in the band for over a decade. Really?

[MoraWintersoul]

I don't think blind loyalty to anyone in a band is a good thing (for the most part). IMO quality should always come before nostalgia. Sure, anyone is free to like/dislike a band based on who's on the roster, but wishing for DT (or any band) to be done only because x member leaves or gets replaced is just a very selfish, short-sighted mindset. "I don't like it, therefore they're done. This is not X band anymore". That's the same reason why we say a lot of people saying DT was no longer DT because MP wasn't in the band for over a decade. Really?

I'm coming from a different angle here, about 99% of us would find it really difficult to imagine DT without JP, and in the very unlikely event that he left and the others had a burning desire to continue under the name DT, we would all get to say that. There's a smaller percentage of the fanbase that puts James in that #1 spot instead and that's completely valid, because it's just a matter of taste. The people who said it about MP and kept to their word didn't really harsh my mellow either - they made a number of internet spaces really annoying to be in as a DT fan, but we have DTF to be free of all of that!

[Stadler]

There's bands with dramatic vocalist changes I can think of.

Kamelot
Queensryche
Redemption
Journey


Then there are bands who's vocalist was so integral they had to change name brands

Queen
Sublime

AC/DC
Van Halen
Marillion

If you could ever name a band that had a brand associated with their lead singer it's Van Halen and Diamond David Lee Roth, and yet they were as successful - arguably more successful under certain metrics - than with Roth.

[Stadler]

I don't think blind loyalty to anyone in a band is a good thing (for the most part). IMO quality should always come before nostalgia. Sure, anyone is free to like/dislike a band based on who's on the roster, but wishing for DT (or any band) to be done only because x member leaves or gets replaced is just a very selfish, short-sighted mindset. "I don't like it, therefore they're done. This is not X band anymore". That's the same reason why we say a lot of people saying DT was no longer DT because MP wasn't in the band for over a decade. Really?

But it's a matter of taste, and there's no way of knowing - at least for me - until after the damage is done.   I just need to hear the material. It's as simple as that.

For every band I've stuck with through singer thick and singer thin - Deep Purple, Rainbow, Marillion, Yes - there have been bands I've bailed on for the same reasons - Priest, Michael Schenker, Bad Company, Genesis...

I think for me, the point is, NO RULES.  There just aren't any rules for this sort of thing.  I'll know it when I hear it.

[gzarruk]

I'm coming from a different angle here, about 99% of us would find it really difficult to imagine DT without JP, and in the very unlikely event that he left and the others had a burning desire to continue under the name DT, we would all get to say that. There's a smaller percentage of the fanbase that puts James in that #1 spot instead and that's completely valid, because it's just a matter of taste. The people who said it about MP and kept to their word didn't really harsh my mellow either - they made a number of internet spaces really annoying to be in as a DT fan, but we have DTF to be free of all of that!

Oh, I agree with you, specially the bolded. In that particular case, though, it's the main driving force behind the band that's being replaced, not a "regular" member. No one expects Megadeth to continue without Mustaine or Opeth without Akerfeldt because those guys are the main writers and pretty much everything else for their respective bands, and there's plenty other examples to cite like Nightwish, Angra, Big Big Train, you name it. Spock's Beard even broke that rule and continued without Neal, who was the main guy for about everything up until that point.

I agree that it's all subjective and we're free to like or dislike whatever we want. There's bands that I've stopped following because I didn't like lineup changes of and thats totally fine, but that doesn't mean the band should stop existing just because my favorite member of the band isn't there anymore.

But it's a matter of taste, and there's no way of knowing - at least for me - until after the damage is done.   I just need to hear the material. It's as simple as that.

And I also agree here, the music and live shows should speak for themselves, but that's the beauty of it all, different tastes. Some changes work and some don't, but we as fans aren't and shouldn't be the measuring rod that dictates whether or not a band has the right to continue without x member. (Whether they stay in business is another story).

[MirrorMask]

JLB "the MAIN draw"? I honestly don't think that that statement makes ANY LOGICAL SENSE!

I'm coming from a different angle here, about 99% of us would find it really difficult to imagine DT without JP, and in the very unlikely event that he left and the others had a burning desire to continue under the name DT, we would all get to say that. There's a smaller percentage of the fanbase that puts James in that #1 spot instead and that's completely valid, because it's just a matter of taste.

Yup, I agree with Mora. James is my main draw to the band. I don't consider him to be the most important member of the band, that's Petrucci for me, and to piggyback off Mora's example, a Dream Theater without Petrucci would be to me a band without its most important core carrying on off the strenght of the name and the brand. However I am not a musician, and while I do appreciate the musicianship of the guys, I listen to Dream Theater to have the technical prowess in service of the music and the melody. I don't care to hear a 5 minutes long guitar solo, I care to hear what the songwriters' ability in the band conjured up to allow James to sing a beautiful melody that touches me. And while I said that I'm not a musician, if I would have been one, I would have been a singer. I actually took singing lessons for some year. Vocals will always be my main draw in the band and it's the reason why I don't like black metal or the more extreme forms of music. I can't connect with the growling vocals, I enjoy them here and there in specific occasions but a kind of music that I would normally like sang with harsh vocals would be a turn off for me. In basically every band I love, the vocals have to attract me. And I'm along the DT ride for the vocals. James going would be a terrible and unfixable damage to my connection with DT's music.

[crystalstars17]

JLB "the MAIN draw"? I honestly don't think that that statement makes ANY LOGICAL SENSE!

Because these things are, by nature, not logical - they are entirely subjective!

[crystalstars17]

I'm coming from a different angle here, about 99% of us would find it really difficult to imagine DT without JP, and in the very unlikely event that he left and the others had a burning desire to continue under the name DT, we would all get to say that. There's a smaller percentage of the fanbase that puts James in that #1 spot instead and that's completely valid, because it's just a matter of taste. The people who said it about MP and kept to their word didn't really harsh my mellow either - they made a number of internet spaces really annoying to be in as a DT fan, but we have DTF to be free of all of that!

All of this!

[Schurftkut]

I agree with all saying it isn't DT without JLB as much as JP.

IF Jlb can't tour anymore, it should be something like Dream Theater presents: Dino Jelusick (or whatever great singer is around for that part of the world)

[Ben_Jamin]

AC/DC
Van Halen
Marillion

If you could ever name a band that had a brand associated with their lead singer it's Van Halen and Diamond David Lee Roth, and yet they were as successful - arguably more successful under certain metrics - than with Roth.

So then why is JLB leaving DT one where the band will be done?

I have said before. IF JLB gets replaced, Mike Mills will be an excellent replacement.

Although, if John Myung leaves. I would consider that the end of the band.

[MoraWintersoul]

So then why is JLB leaving DT one where the band will be done?

Although, if John Myung leaves. I would consider that the end of the band.

Well, some people think the same as you, but put JLB in the spot of JM.

I'm kind of in that position where I love JLB, I'd have a hard time swallowing that change and really don't want him to be the first to leave, but I also don't want to sit through two or three tours where he sounds like he did on the View/Dreamsonic run. If at some point we have to go through scenario A to avoid going through scenario B, then who am I to say no to that.

[Glasser]

James was, and still is, the main draw for me to DT.  As others have said, if he leaves of his own accord, I'll give his successor a chance.  But if he gets kicked out, I will be done with DT.

Not that this is even close to the voice of DT but its OK Mangini lost his job? I know MP is the first but what did Mangini do wrong? 

[ZirconBlue]

Yup, I agree with Mora. James is my main draw to the band. I don't consider him to be the most important member of the band, that's Petrucci for me, and to piggyback off Mora's example, a Dream Theater without Petrucci would be to me a band without its most important core carrying on off the strenght of the name and the brand. However I am not a musician, and while I do appreciate the musicianship of the guys, I listen to Dream Theater to have the technical prowess in service of the music and the melody. I don't care to hear a 5 minutes long guitar solo, I care to hear what the songwriters' ability in the band conjured up to allow James to sing a beautiful melody that touches me. And while I said that I'm not a musician, if I would have been one, I would have been a singer. I actually took singing lessons for some year. Vocals will always be my main draw in the band and it's the reason why I don't like black metal or the more extreme forms of music. I can't connect with the growling vocals, I enjoy them here and there in specific occasions but a kind of music that I would normally like sang with harsh vocals would be a turn off for me. In basically every band I love, the vocals have to attract me. And I'm along the DT ride for the vocals. James going would be a terrible and unfixable damage to my connection with DT's music.

I agree with pretty much all of this (although I am a musician -- I play tuba).

[ZirconBlue]

Not that this is even close to the voice of DT but its OK Mangini lost his job? I know MP is the first but what did Mangini do wrong? 

In the case of MM (and DS, for that matter) it seems to be a matter of chemistry within the band.  MM didn't do anything wrong, I gather they just wanted to work with MP again. 


Anyone replacing JLB would have a very hard time filling his shoes.  For all the talk about his problems live, I think he still sounds great in the studio.  And his voice is unique.  I've heard other people who sound like Geoff Tate.  I've never heard anyone that sounds like JLB.  I would not be optimistic in them finding someone who would suit my preferences.  Adding negative baggage to that calculus by kicking JLB to the curb would make it very difficult for me to get past. 

[cramx3]

Anyone replacing JLB would have a very hard time filling his shoes. 

Maybe, but all I have to think about is watching Devin Townsend sing The Spirit Carries on last year and well, I think there's a lot of room for a better front man today.  Having said that, it's not something I want to see and I'll go along with Zircon said.  If JLB is fired, I won't be happy and could potentially be so turned off that I won't want to follow DT anymore.  If he leaves on his own and the band continues, I also won't be happy, but I would continue to support the band and check out the new singer with open ears. 

[Glasser]

In the case of MM (and DS, for that matter) it seems to be a matter of chemistry within the band.  MM didn't do anything wrong, I gather they just wanted to work with MP again. 


Anyone replacing JLB would have a very hard time filling his shoes.  For all the talk about his problems live, I think he still sounds great in the studio.  And his voice is unique.  I've heard other people who sound like Geoff Tate.  I've never heard anyone that sounds like JLB.  I would not be optimistic in them finding someone who would suit my preferences.  Adding negative baggage to that calculus by kicking JLB to the curb would make it very difficult for me to get past.

I agree that JLB sounds great in the studio and is unique. I love his voice. I remember when they asked James to join MP telling me he sounded like a metal version of Dennis Deyoung of Styx. I remember Mike giving me the 3 song ATCO demo and at that time he and JP truly valued my opinion, which was very cool being in the DT circle back then. MP was awesome back then, total goofball and just fun to be around. Even after introducing DT to Bill Rogers to be the vocalist that they were very excited about at that time, then the nightmare gig I was at when they introduced Steven Stone, James was a slam dunk perfect fit. I got so used to the demo versions of Take The Time and Metropolis that the album versions were a slight adjustment, nothing big. But yeah, I'm rooting for James to kick ass on the album and hopefully the same on tour man!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

JLB "the MAIN draw"? I honestly don't think that that statement makes ANY LOGICAL SENSE!

DT without JLB would become, in my mind and ears, your archetypical progressive metal band. JLB is one of the most important parts of the DT formula, in spite of his flaws as a live performer nowadays, and the band knows this (so much that they haven't parted ways with him, even in his darkest and lowest of days as a singer). The people that know what's best for Dream Theater are Dream Theater, so if JLB is still in the band it's because people, far more important and knowledgable in the subject than you and I, consider it so. That should be enough for us, fans.

I do appreciate most of the discussions held on this subject matter in this thread. I think that lots of us feel kinda the same: we don't want to see JLB go, but we really wish and need to see him up his game in the last few tours that they still have together as a band (I'm not worried at all of studio releases, he's going to kick ass as always in those).

[Azyiu]

What do you guys think would there be a "backup" singer, like what Mr. Big is doing with Eric on the stage to "help him out with those tougher to reach" notes?

[gborland]

Most prog metal bands have bad singers ("it's so bland it hurts!"). The only two which don't are DT and Symphony X.

[Zydar]

Most prog metal bands have bad singers ("it's so bland it hurts!"). The only two which don't are DT and Symphony X.

Plus QR in Tate's prime.

[gborland]

Plus QR in Tate's prime.

Yes.

[MinistroRaven]

I am just waiting to see if a "prophecy" given by a certain guy comes to be true, I am waiting for this album/tour cycle to end and see if he had it right.

[nikatapi]

I am just waiting to see if a "prophecy" given by a certain guy comes to be true, I am waiting for this album/tour cycle to end and see if he had it right.

Care to share the prophecy with us?

[Stadler]

Most prog metal bands have bad singers ("it's so bland it hurts!"). The only two which don't are DT and Symphony X.

And of course, by "DT and Symphony X", you mean "DT".   (I think Russell Allen is wildly overrated by the people here on this board; I just do not get it.)



(For the record, and of course, depending on how you define "prog metal", I actually don't particularly care for "prog metal" beyond early Queensryche and DT; and the problem is almost always the singer.   James is very much the exception to the rule as far as I'm concerned, and is BY FAR my favorite in the genre.)

[emtee]

Ray Alder would be in my top tier list as well.