Would you ever turn your own child in to the police if they'd committed a crime?

[Jamesman42]

imagine going to the police about your grandpa doing that. Like, imagine actually putting that effort in. Heck no.

That reminds me of a situation about 8 years ago. A buddy of mine stole 20 packs of a popular trading card game and opened them up in front of me, asking if I wanted any. I declined because it felt wrong. Yet, I had zero aspiration to get the law involved. I didn't feel it was my business and that, since he was my friend, I didn't want to lose that friendship.

Replace stealing packs of cards with rape or other gnarly stuff, and things change.

[WilliamMunny]

Let me put a less serious slant on the question, with entirely different dynamics at play. Your dear 92 year old pa, a cantankerous old bastard but you cherish him dearly, doesn't have much longer to go on this side of the grass and has decided to go out with a bang by pilfering a couple of 6 packs from the local Walmart. He's been wanting to do it ever since the big chains put his grocery store out of business in the 70s. Are you shopping him to the fuzz or cracking open one of those beers with him?

Yeah, that's a no-brainer...I'll be in the getaway car!

[Stadler]

Let me put a less serious slant on the question, with entirely different dynamics at play. Your dear 92 year old pa, a cantankerous old bastard but you cherish him dearly, doesn't have much longer to go on this side of the grass and has decided to go out with a bang by pilfering a couple of 6 packs from the local Walmart. He's been wanting to do it ever since the big chains put his grocery store out of business in the 70s. Are you shopping him to the fuzz or cracking open one of those beers with him?

I'm driving him to the Walmart.   One last ride, motherfuckers!!!!

[cramx3]

*anyone here seen the Robert De Niro/Dustin Hoffman/Brad Pitt movie Sleepers? Similar kind of question is asked. Some boys grow up to commit murder (as revenge for childhood abuse) and a priest (De Niro) and lawyers (Hoffman and Pitt) face the question of whether to conspire to get them off the hook.       

That's a messed up movie, but a good one.

[Stadler]

There's a lot of different issues going around here.   Friends; I think my answers are different with friends.  I suppose it matters what friend, but I don't feel I have the same obligations to strangers that I do to my kid(s).  I might take a different approach with them depending on the crime.  The trading cards?  Not my business, not my conscience, not my obligation to teach.  If one of my friends raped or killed someone?   I don't know, and I may be able to assuage my conscience in different ways (anonymous tip, maybe?)

As for grandpa, not to get all existential here, but having lost both parents in the last 18 months, I have a much different view of that time of the life.   Not that I'm any less scared of death or any less enamored with life, but at the end, there's a real "come to Jesus" (pardon the pun) concept about what matters.  I don't regret, per se, but one of the things I wrestled with near the end of my dad's life was "letting him" go back to his condo.  When he fell (some of you know the story; he shattered his leg in November, went to rehab then into assisted living and died the following June) it was difficult for him to accept that his circumstances changed.  My brother and I resisted letting him go back to his condo, because mentally he wasn't ready.  In the end, the day he fell was the last time he ever set foot in his condo.  I felt bad about that for a long time, but in hindsight, he still got to spend every minute of the remainder of his life with his beloved wife, and we - my brother and I - got to  make peace with them and say all the things we needed to say.  The material things he was concerned with at the end don't matter at all now and I believe that he went out on his own terms (some of you know that as well: his cancer that he beat twice came back with a vengeance, and he died literally in the transport on the way to hospice.  I will take to my grave that he knew he'd never see his wife again, or drive his car, or anything else and simply said "enough; this isn't the life I want to lead". 

If my dad killed someone (rape was probably off the table) at that point, I would probably urge him to do the right thing vis-a-vis the victims, but as much as I am beholden to our rule of law, or the US justice system, what is that going to prove?  No lessons were to be learned at that point; I've talked about the victim a lot, but "vengeance" is not my priority even in the slightest, it is human decency. Past that, family first. 

[Cool Chris]

This could go in a couple different threads, but this happened by me, and it is relevant to the subject.

https://komonews.com/news/local/13-year-old-jayda-woods-johnson-lynnwood-alderwood-mall-deadly-fatal-deputy-chief-patrick-fagan-police-department-16-year-old-shooter-court-appearance-witnesses-tragedy-mayor-christine-frizzell#

Summary: At a mall food court, a fight between "two groups*" broke out, a 16 year old fired a gun, hit a 13 year old girl uninvolved in the fight, and killed her. He initially fled the scene, but was then turned in to the police by his mother.

Commentary: This mall is by our house, and a few months ago my daughter had briefly met the girl who was killed through a mutual friend. I can't tell how much it is affecting her. The bigger issue for me is that she and her friends hang out at that mall.

So apparently kid's mom turned him in. It was done in a short time. I wonder how much consideration there was. I am assuming he evaluated her potential liability, if it was her gun, for example. Maybe she was sick of his shit and wanted him locked up. Who knows. I am not ready to award her the title of "Mother of the Year." He posted bond is currently free.

I don't usually go down the "that could have been us" route, but a 13 year old kid was randomly killed at the mall. I have a 13 year old who goes to that mall.

*They are called "gangs" but news outlets can't seem to figure out that word.

[jammindude]

Chris, I don't even know what to say. I am so sorry and I am hoping for the best for you and your family. I understand that even though she didn't really KNOW The girl, moments like that can really make you feel like you dodged a bullet (no pun intended) and make you rethink a lot of things. At least consider your own mortality.

[Cool Chris]

Chris, I don't even know what to say. I am so sorry and I am hoping for the best for you and your family. I understand that even though she didn't really KNOW The girl, moments like that can really make you feel like you dodged a bullet (no pun intended) and make you rethink a lot of things. At least consider your own mortality.

Thank you jd, and as I said in Grappler's recent post in the Marriage/Parenting thread, I am not happy that my daughter is experiencing (this girl, and older relatives including a great Aunt last month) but I want her to understand and appreciate the life and mortality as well. A wise man one said "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life."

[El Barto]

This could go in a couple different threads, but this happened by me, and it is relevant to the subject.

https://komonews.com/news/local/13-year-old-jayda-woods-johnson-lynnwood-alderwood-mall-deadly-fatal-deputy-chief-patrick-fagan-police-department-16-year-old-shooter-court-appearance-witnesses-tragedy-mayor-christine-frizzell#

Summary: At a mall food court, a fight between "two groups*" broke out, a 16 year old fired a gun, hit a 13 year old girl uninvolved in the fight, and killed her. He initially fled the scene, but was then turned in to the police by his mother.

Commentary: This mall is by our house, and a few months ago my daughter had briefly met the girl who was killed through a mutual friend. I can't tell how much it is affecting her. The bigger issue for me is that she and her friends hang out at that mall.

So apparently kid's mom turned him in. It was done in a short time. I wonder how much consideration there was. I am assuming he evaluated her potential liability, if it was her gun, for example. Maybe she was sick of his shit and wanted him locked up. Who knows. I am not ready to award her the title of "Mother of the Year." He posted bond is currently free.

I don't usually go down the "that could have been us" route, but a 13 year old kid was randomly killed at the mall. I have a 13 year old who goes to that mall.

*They are called "gangs" but news outlets can't seem to figure out that word.

First and foremost, hope things are alright for the kiddo. The good news is that it's probably harder on you than on her.

What makes you think they were gangbangers? Could be, but could just as easily be two groups of kids that don't get along, unless there's something more to the story.

The woman turning her kid in was very likely strategic, and the right move on her part if protecting him is her interest. The cops were going to get him one way or another. Best to try for a soft landing. Destroy every bit of evidence and show up at the police station with your lawyer in tow. I heard you were looking for my son for some reason. Is there a problem? There's a reason celebrities and politicians do it this way.

The coverage I've seen of this bugs me just as much as the shooting. Sorry to say, but these things happen, and not every senseless homicide represents the crumbling of society. What's that thing Stadler says? When everybody has a story. . .

[jingle.boy]

I'm having a difficult time coming up with a scenario where I wouldn't.

Speeding?  Not coming to a full stop at a stop sign?  Wearing crocs AND socks? 

There's a litany misdemeanour crimes I wouldn't ever considering turning my kids in for.

@ Chris.... that's scary af.

[Cool Chris]

The woman turning her kid in was very likely strategic, and the right move on her part if protecting him is her interest. The cops were going to get him one way or another. Best to try for a soft landing. Destroy every bit of evidence and show up at the police station with your lawyer in tow. I heard you were looking for my son for some reason. Is there a problem? There's a reason celebrities and politicians do it this way.

I've been thinking about this a lot, which is why I posted it in this thread. We will never know why he got turned in, and can only speculate, and this is certainly possible. If my timeline is right, it happened pretty quickly, which initially made me think it was more impulsive and less calculated, as there wouldn't have been much time to pursue legal counsel.

The coverage I've seen of this bugs me just as much as the shooting. Sorry to say, but these things happen, and not every senseless homicide represents the crumbling of society. What's that thing Stadler says? When everybody has a story. . .

What is bothering you specifically? It has been on the local news here but is never the top story, nor does it seem like the coverage is gratuitous.

[El Barto]

I've been thinking about this a lot, which is why I posted it in this thread. We will never know why he got turned in, and can only speculate, and this is certainly possible. If my timeline is right, it happened pretty quickly, which initially made me think it was more impulsive and less calculated, as there wouldn't have been much time to pursue legal counsel.

Hard-ass John Wayne style parenting is certainly a possibility. There will always be people who care more about law and order than the freedom of their own kids; that's why this thread was started in the first place, and two people voted yes. But why bond him out? John Wayne is going to tel him "I hope you rot in there you little punk" as the door slams shut. Presumably they had to put their house up as collateral on the bond, so it's not like they were writing the kid off.

It's also possible that they just didn't want him getting his ass kicked by the police. Like I said, Johnny was going to find him sooner rather than later. Beating them to the, eh, punch prevented both the kid and the cops from doing something stupid. It's a controlled landing.

What is bothering you specifically? It has been on the local news here but is never the top story, nor does it seem like the coverage is gratuitous.

I checked several articles about it yesterday, and while I don't know how it's being covered in the liberal hellscape of Seattle, out here it's certainly being spun as criticism of your revolving door criminal justice system, and to a lesser degree the collapse of American moral values and shitty parenting. Maybe there some truth there, I don't know, but after years of the daily hammering of that narrative it's pretty much the revealed word of God at this point, and that bugs the hell out of me. Not to mention that not everything needs to be politicized, yet it's the first thing we want to do.

[jammindude]

Speeding?  Not coming to a full stop at a stop sign?  Wearing crocs AND socks? 

There's a litany misdemeanour crimes I wouldn't ever considering turning my kids in for.

Re: running a stop sign or speeding.

Are we classifying the accidental running of stop sign as "committing a crime"?  So are jaywalkers "criminals" now?

However I will say that if they got ticketed for running a stop sign or speeding, I would tell them that they got EXACTLY what they deserved.   I would also tell them that there are perfectly legal and honest ways of having the fine lowered and then guide them through that process.

[Cool Chris]

Like I said, Johnny was going to find him sooner rather than later. Beating them to the, eh, punch prevented both the kid and the cops from doing something stupid. It's a controlled landing.

Once I thought about it, this is where I arrived.

I checked several articles about it yesterday, and while I don't know how it's being covered in the liberal hellscape of Seattle, out here it's certainly being spun as criticism of your revolving door criminal justice system, and to a lesser degree the collapse of American moral values and shitty parenting. Maybe there some truth there, I don't know, but after years of the daily hammering of that narrative it's pretty much the revealed word of God at this point, and that bugs the hell out of me. Not to mention that not everything needs to be politicized, yet it's the first thing we want to do.

I've read articles from a couple news local news sources and they have not been as you described.

[Cool Chris]

The woman turning her kid in was very likely strategic, and the right move on her part if protecting him is her interest. The cops were going to get him one way or another. Best to try for a soft landing. Destroy every bit of evidence and show up at the police station with your lawyer in tow. I heard you were looking for my son for some reason. Is there a problem? There's a reason celebrities and politicians do it this way.

More details emerge... I read she turned him in two hours after the shooting. They certainly didn't stew on it for long. They also upped the bail amount once they announced charges, so he turned himself in again.

Police said an associate of Gizaw posted photos with the same gun and an extended magazine. The same associate, according to police, later reposted a "Snohomish County Scanner" post about the mall shooting with the caption "Ain't it fun."

"During the course of their investigation, detectives have found or been told of many social media posts about the incident. In one post, an uninvolved individual boasts that law enforcement will not find the firearm, indicating that arrangements were made to dispose of this evidence," deputy prosecuting attorney Elaine Ann Deschenes wrote in charging papers.

I'm still leaning toward gangbanger.

[wgrio]

It's a tough call. As a parent, my gut says I wouldn't turn my kid in, but it really depends on the situation and how serious the offense is.