Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

[Samsara]

Well, no offense to Mike Portnoy, Eric Gillette, and any of the rest of the band members, but I wouldn't really change much of what I wrote. 

1.  First off, the review was incredibly complimentary.  Having gone back through it again, I don't minimize or slag anything about the album or any of the band members.  It is about as glowing a review as I could possibly write without just coming across as a completely biased shill for the band.  My sincere apologies if I did not take the time to individually praise each individual member's contribution more than I did.  But I am honestly not sure how I could have possibly been more positive.

2.  In my defense (as if I need to defend the review), I do not know what the actual writing contribution of each individual members consists of, and I have no way of knowing.  The band has not been explicit about that.  Having followed Neal's career for quite some time now, I can say that although Neal has said that with this iteration of the band, writing is more of a "band effort" than it has been.  But we the fans have little idea what that actually looks like.  Even having watched the "making of" video that came with Similitude, it is clear that Neal is the driving creative force, and it is NOT clear just how much the others bring to the table in terms of writing.  Neal is front and center in that video.  That is pretty much how it has always been.  And that is not a negative or a slight to anyone else.  It just is what it is.  So how are we the fans, including those relatively few of us who are privileged to review the material, supposed to intelligently comment on greater detail about each individual member's contribution when we have no idea what that is?  Especially when this is a pre-release review and, as a result, the band and label have been pretty mum about everything about the album, and the details are scant.

3.  Neal Morse's name is on the project.  Rightly or wrongly, that gives a "solo artist" impression, whether writing is truly a "band effort" or not.  Despite that fans (rightly) praise the individual performances of the other band members, I think there will always be a tendency to refer to the artist the project is named after in this type of situation.  It is subconscious, and is inevitable.  No matter how collaborative the band is, Neal will always receive the lion's share of the credit as long as his name is on the project.  Same with Dio, James LaBrie, Ozzy, etc.  Again, that isn't a slight to the other members.  But it's the double edged sword of this project being called "The Neal Morse Band." 

So, again, I'm sorry that my focus was more on Neal, individually.  I truly meant no offense and did not mean to marginalize the contributions of anyone else.  I apologize if some of my wording may have been a bit careless in that regard.  But there was nothing negative said in the review about anything, and I think it would have ultimately been more productive for each of the band members to focus on the glowing nature of the review and to be proud of what they brought to the table in eliciting such a response from a true fan of the band (the ENTIRE band) than to merely focus on any omission in shining the spotlight directly on them.  That's my two cents.

EXACTLY.

I've written hundreds of album reviews over the years. Its on the writer to do his or her homework. But if the information isn't readily available, its tough to judge what is what and how to phrase things. As bosk1 and I both said above -- when a person's name IS the band name (with "band" tacked onto the end), that person will always get the lion's share of the credit.

If this was a James LaBrie solo record - who gets the majority of the praise? James. Why? Well, because his name is the name of the band. Hell, James didn't even write much on his last "solo" album, and refers to the project as a "band," but he still gets credit by most people as being the mastermind behind it. That's not really fair, but that's the optics of it. He knows it, and so does his band members. I don't see too much bitching from those in James' band over that.

Simply put, all the dudes in "The NEAL MORSE BAND" know whose name is up there, and if they didn't like it, they should have released it under a band name. The review is actually WAY more complimentary than most reviews are, and they should be thankful that a work they are involved with is getting such high praise.

Again, I don't think any of them are angry at bosk1, but if they feel so strongly about it, they should talk with Neal about making sure any future collaborations are under a band name, instead of his name.

[KevShmev]

Regarding the optics of a band name with one person's name, that is very true.

I am a longtime fan of Dave Matthews Band, who tour every summer, and back in the day, the common question among friends and family who were fans was, "You going to see Dave this summer?"  It's just the way it goes when the band name only mentions one person.

[MinistroRaven]

I was reluctant to the changes been made, but made them anyways.

Here's the updated link:

https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/the-great-adventure-is-not-only-a-worthy-successor-to-similitude-it-is-one-of-the-finest-musical-works-of-neal-morses-career-album-review-by-jerry-deschler

[kaos2900]

Well done Bosk, great review.

In regards to the MP comment, another swing and a miss. I'll just say that even as a true band and not a Neal solo effort, MP is not the reason why I love their music. He's part of it but without Neal it wouldn't be what it is. I think Eric also contributes a ton with his vocals and amazing guitar work.

[gzarruk]

Maybe I'm being too hard on them with this, but, aside from their vocals, I just don't perceive too many changes in the music aspect of things. TGE and TSOAD sound just like any other NM prog album, only with different vocalists in a couple parts. The albums, specially Similitude, are amazing, but they're that way BECAUSE they sound like Neal Morse prog albums, which is what they are.

Bill even uses the same exact keyboard patches Neal has been using for decades, making it harder to distinguish who's even playing the part when listening to the albums, and Eric, though he is a monster guitar player (no one's denying that), he is just, according to Mike Portnoy himself, "Petrucci Jr.". The other two members are Mike and Randy, both who have appeared on every Neal Morse prog album since One (iirc, Randy wasn't on Testimony), of course the albums are going to sound very similar.

[Nick]

I've met Jaci briefly on multiple cruises, and while she is a very nice person, online she has gotten hostile with regards to Eric on more than one occasion. Frankly I've seen more instances of "helicopter spousing"or whatever you may want to call it from her than I've ever seen complaints from Eric. It may have already happened, but if not I'd hate to be the reviewer who gives a negative review to one of his solo albums if she gets involved.

[MinistroRaven]

It-s getting interesting over the Eric Gillette forum on FB 

[gzarruk]

It-s getting interesting over the Eric Gillette forum on FB 

Any screenshots for us not on the EGF?

[MinistroRaven]

It-s getting interesting over the Eric Gillette forum on FB 

Any screenshots for us not on the EGF?

She deleted the entire post and I didn't take screenshots.
When I try to open one of the comments made by an user I got this message:



For those non Spanish speakers it says something like: "The post can't be loaded" "it is posible that the post it's not longer available, or that it can only be read by a public you are not part of"

HA!

But she wrote this and I sent it to Bosk1

"Jorge Pozo please tell me that you also sent this response to Mike...

He is wrong. Period. He clearly states that he has reviewed this album as a solo album, which it is not. And, if he didn't know any better, then he should not be the one doing the reviewing, or he should have reached out and asked questions.

No one said that he was not positive enough and no one expects all reviews to be "glowing". A review is someone's opinion, and we understand that.

I'll share this response with the band, if you have not."

And before you ask, yes, I alas sent it to MP but he hasn't seen it/reply it. (Not expecting he replies if you ask me)

[The Letter M]

https://myglobalmind.com/2019/01/06/neal-morse-on-the-bands-newest-cd-the-great-adventure-its-amazing-this-album-got-done/

Here's an interview with Neal discussing the creation of TGA, with some good insight regarding how the album went through some revisions before being finalized.

-Marc.

[MinistroRaven]

Eric's wife also taking shots at The Prog Report review

[KevShmev]

https://myglobalmind.com/2019/01/06/neal-morse-on-the-bands-newest-cd-the-great-adventure-its-amazing-this-album-got-done/

Here's an interview with Neal discussing the creation of TGA, with some good insight regarding how the album went through some revisions before being finalized.

-Marc.

Good find! Nice interview.

[gzarruk]

Eric's wife also taking shots at The Prog Report review

Unnecesary drama. Even Mike's reaction was better than her's, which is saying a lot.

[Nick]

Man, so tempting to write a review basically saying how nice it was of Neal to teach Eric all the guitar parts after he wrote them for him.

[KevShmev]

The worst part about this is that she could easily tell Eric that he needs to go on his own for him to ever get real credit for the music he makes, and boom, there goes the Neal Morse Band as they are currently constructed.

[The Letter M]

So I decided to pull out my copy of TSOAD and check the credits, and here's how it is printed on the packaging/in the booklet:

Written, Arranged and Produced by
Morse, Portnoy, George, Hubauer & Gillette
Lyrics by Neal Morse

If they are supposedly given equal credit, why aren't the names alphabetized, like you'd expect? George, Gillette, Hubauer, Morse & Portnoy? The way it seems makes it seem like that's the order of contributions, if there is any meaning to the order at all. Granted, it could be that Morse/Portnoy/George are listed that way because that's the order in which they joined Neal/the band, and listing the last two as "Hubauer & Gillette" rather than "Hubauer, and Gillette" makes sense as they joined at the same time.

Either way, when you take into account the fact that, even on the NMB albums, Neal probably still contributes the majority of the musical ideas and arrangements, and possibly almost all of the lyrics, it's not hard to think that someone might see it as a Neal Morse record with a band playing on it. As has been stated above, the transition from solo Neal records to NMB can seem only surface-level, with vocal contributions from Gillette and Hubauer, as some might find their performances near indistinguishable from Neal's, though I have gained more of an ear for Eric's guitar playing over the last two records.

It all seems very silly that they are making a fuss about this - of COURSE they all should be credited, that's why it's the Neal Morse BAND and not something like "Neal Morse And The Morsels" or something dumb where they feel like an appendage that can be easily replaced or chopped off. It's not like they have never heard an album/seen a movie or tv show and referred to them as a work by the main creator/director, right? Like, all those Stanley Kubrick films have other creators behind them, but he gets the credit, right?

https://myglobalmind.com/2019/01/06/neal-morse-on-the-bands-newest-cd-the-great-adventure-its-amazing-this-album-got-done/

Here's an interview with Neal discussing the creation of TGA, with some good insight regarding how the album went through some revisions before being finalized.

-Marc.

Good find! Nice interview.

I saw it posted by Mike on Facebook, oddly enough! It struck me as interesting considering how much work went into reshaping the album throughout 2018. We got hints of that in Neal's Inner Circle newsletters, but it sounds like a lot more went into re-working the album into a double concept than I had originally thought. Now I am really excited to watch the Making Of DVD that Randy has put together!

-Marc.

[Mladen]

Why would anyone feel the need to defend their husband's imput into a music album so strongly?

I think Bill's and Eric's influences on the last two albums are audible, but I'm personally not buying that all members contributed EQUALLY. I don't hear it when I contrast it to earlier Neal's albums. Even with Flying Colors I wouldn't argue there are equal contributions.

[Nick]

Why would anyone feel the need to defend their husband's imput into a music album so strongly?

I'm not friends with her on FB, but see lots of stuff from her when she tags Eric and the sense I've gotten is she thinks that Eric professionally the hottest shit on Earth. Now I get it, she's his wife, he's insanely talented, and she wants to be supportive. But the disconnect seems to be that she doesn't understand that (for better or worse) that hard work and talent =/= success or songwriting ability, both of which Neal Morse has far more of. I have no doubt that all five guys pounded away on this album, and all were extremely dedicated to it. I also have no doubt that at the end of the day Neal Morse is the reason it'll all come together sounding as it does and being as good as it is. He has a long career and a track record in music and for good reason, and Eric has a lot of years to go to compete with that before they would be assumed equals on anything.

[goo-goo]

So I decided to pull out my copy of TSOAD and check the credits, and here's how it is printed on the packaging/in the booklet:


Written, Arranged and Produced by
Morse, Portnoy, George, Hubauer & Gillette
Lyrics by Neal Morse

Not only this but it also depends on how the credits are submitted to the publishing company. So, even though it may have been a full blown band collaboration, the publishing credits is what dictates royalties and compensation.

Anyways, still on the fence with Neal. I'll have to stream the album first and decide then if I'll buy it.

Oddly enough, I keep spinning We Came From Space (the Bill Hubauer album). It's such a refreshing album.

[KevShmev]

I guess once we see how the credits are listed on the new album, we will see if the songwriting really was completely equal.  I will be shocked if any of the lyrics were written by anyone other than Neal Morse, and if Neal wrote all of the lyrics, that means he already has 50% of the songwriting credit (since lyrics and music/arranging generally are considered a 50/50 split).  Marc's post about the Similtude breakdown means Neal had 60% of the songwriting credit (100% of the lyrics and 20% of the music/arranging) and the others all had 10%.  I have a feeling the new album will have the same breakdown.  And that is not to diminish the impact and importance of the others.  The addition of Eric and Bill to the already existing trio (Neal/Randy/Portnoy) was awesome and I am personally a big fan of both, but, like Nick alluded to, Neal is ultimately the straw that stirs the murkiest part of the drink.  All five guys are important in the Neal Morse Band, but it is called the Neal Morse Band for a reason.

[kaos2900]

All of this drama over a positive and respectful review is ridiculous.  I'd hate to see the response to a negative yet honest review.

[bosk1]

I guess once we see how the credits are listed on the new album, we will see if the songwriting really was completely equal.

"Music written & arranged by The Neal Morse Band. Lyrics written by Neal Morse." 

There are no separate song-by-song credits, at least not in the digital copies of the inside album art that I have.  (and I don't recall them having song-by-song credits within Similitude either, so that would be consistent)

And again, I don't want to take away from anyone's contribution.  But I also don't want to waste time getting into semantics arguments.  I again stand by what I wrote.  Neal is the face of the band, and as such, he will always receive the brunt of any praise or criticism for what they do.  In this case, I have nothing but unabashed praise for the album.  In the grand scheme of things, I have no problem with Mike and Jaci redirecting everyone's thoughts and word choices to remind us that this work is truly a band effort and not an individual effort.  And if and when the day ever comes that they put out something less than stellar that calls for criticism, I only hope both of them are just as vocal about reminding is that it was a band effort, and that any criticism should be directed toward and shared equally by the band.

[bluefox4000]

this is kinda deflating me on the album.....hate to say that.

but that's how stupid this is.

[bosk1]

this is kinda deflating me on the album.....hate to say that.

I hate to admit that I was starting to feel that way as well.  But I just had to put things in perspective and listen to the album again.  Regardless of any social media noise, this is a fantastic album that deserves to be listened to and enjoyed.  Do yourself a favor and don't let the noise be a distraction.

[bluefox4000]

this is kinda deflating me on the album.....hate to say that.

I hate to admit that I was starting to feel that way as well.  But I just had to put things in perspective and listen to the album again.  Regardless of any social media noise, this is a fantastic album that deserves to be listened to and enjoyed.  Do yourself a favor and don't let the noise be a distraction.

oh no doubt it's awesome.  i just need the album to drop before this sours me anymore.

it doesn't matter but Drama HAS colored records for me in the past.  i just never want that to happen with a NMB album

[RodrigoAltaf]

17 more days. And you'll still get my interview with Neal Morse to dive into before then!

[hefdaddy42]

*Reads drama*

What a crazy thing.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Funny enough, this was one of the questions I asked Neal:

"A lot of articles about the band talk a lot about the chemistry between you and Mike and about the injection of energy from Eric, but let's talk about the "unsung heroes" of the NMB,  Randy George (bass), Bill Hubauer (keyboards, vocals) for a minute. How do they contribute to the overall sound of the band and the composition process?"

[bosk1]

And he said...? 

[Architeuthis]

Yeah, don't leave us hanging man!

[RodrigoAltaf]

I will publish the interview soon enough. But you know Neal, he's the most polite person I've ever interviewed.

[RoeDent]

For the first time in a while I was genuinely tempted to pick up this album after really enjoying Welcome to the World so much. Now I'm not so sure after Portnoy and Gillette's utterly unnecessary reactions to what was a great review. They should come up with a better more interesting name than The Neal Morse Band if that's what they decide to take issue with.

What I genuinely feel about Portnoy the man (as opposed to Portnoy the musician) will probably get me banned from the forum, so I'd better leave that be. I just hope he doesn't open his gob before Flying Colors III comes out because I'm genuinely looking forward to that. I just wish he'd realize he's not the centre of any bands he's in. He should just get back in the rank and file where drummers belong.

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't hold any of this against Eric Gillette; he didn't say a word or do a thing.

Who else here is planning to go to Morsefest this year?

[bosk1]

What I genuinely feel about Portnoy the man (as opposed to Portnoy the musician) will probably get me banned from the forum, so I'd better leave that be.

Yeah, that is best.  You and I might not be far apart.  But here is not the place for it.

[Plasmastrike]

Bought tickets to see NMB in February! I don't know his discography terribly well. Listened to Solo Scriptura a bit, Momentum, and songs here and there. I'm going to listen to Similitude and Adventure before the show just to familiarize. I've always really respected Neal's songwriting, the bassist's chops, Eric, and of course MP! I haven't seen MP since he was in DT. Should be a really cool night and experience.