Doctor Who

[ACID_FOX]

Compare this to A Good Man Goes To War...I was expecting that X 10.

[skydivingninja]

I dunno, it did a better job than "Let's Kill Hitler" in terms of pacing.  I do agree with Seth that I would've liked for it to be a two-parter, or at least make the whole series more of an arc than it was.  I mean, I loved "The Doctor's Wife," its one of Matt Smith's best episodes, but it could have been delayed for another season if season 6 was built more like one continuous story of the Doctor trying to avert his death and fight the Silence.  Or they could have at least changed "Night Terrors" and "Curse of the Black Spot" to be more story-centric. 

But overall I liked the new episode.  The whole idea of what happens when you mess with a fixed point of time that can't resolve itself (not like Waters of Mars, where the base blew up and Adelaide killed herself anyways despite being saved by the Doctor) was really cool, and definitely shows that the Doctor has fully recovered from his "A God am I" moment from that episode, since he's so strict about the fixed point now.  And if it is a fixed point, then the Tesselecta was always fated to "die" there.  I don't like how they "cut" the scene where the Doctor says "working on that" in response to the Tesselecta only to have it reappear in a flashback though.  I always thought that tactic was kind of cheating the audience.  Overall the whole arc had a lot of promise, but I think it slipped up in the execution a few times.  I don't think Doctor Who is really made for this kind of thing.

I do like how it set up the next series to be more "Monster-of-the-week" based.  Should be interesting to watch the Doctor have tiny adventures while trying to restrain himself from doing anything supermassive. 

Also, was the scene where the troll was being eaten by skulls cheesy or what? 

[ACID_FOX]

Yeah, those effects were ghastly.

[TheMadgician]

I can agree that it felt like they rushed through the episode a bit, but I really enjoyed it. I also like that I was right about the question having to do with his name.

[Sigz]

I can agree that it felt like they rushed through the episode a bit, but I really enjoyed it.

[Implode]

I don't get it. I'm so afraid that Moffat's just not going to resolve all these questions we had.

Does this mean that the person in the background of the lake scene was just a production error?

Edit for more questions:

When do we see how the Doctor and River fall in love? I don't get it. It's like they just both kind of accepted that they were supposed to fall in love, but I never saw any actual reason for it to happen.

And does that mean the Doctor still has to tell River her name?

[ariich]

Am I the only one who absolutely loved that episode? I suspected it was the tesselecta when they brought it back earlier in the episode, but still, the way it was done was fantastic, and interestingly back when they first introduced it in LKH, I never even considered it!

The pacing was fine, basically the same as Doctor Who has been for the last few seasons. And it answered all the questions except this thing about his name being the big question, which in true Moffat style sets up the next series!

I dunno, maybe my mind just works in the same way as Moffat's because that was one of my favourites of the series.

[Millais]

considering I only understood it after I wikipedia'd it, how on earth was a child meant to understand that episode? It was great, but the plot was very complex for the majority of the audience.

[TheMadgician]

I don't get it. I'm so afraid that Moffat's just not going to resolve all these questions we had.

Does this mean that the person in the background of the lake scene was just a production error?

Edit for more questions:

When do we see how the Doctor and River fall in love? I don't get it. It's like they just both kind of accepted that they were supposed to fall in love, but I never saw any actual reason for it to happen.

And does that mean the Doctor still has to tell River her name?

Person in the background of the lake? You mean Canton Delaware? He was invited.

And they've been falling in love for a while, pretty much. Every time they meet, they flirt. It doesn't have to be a single big moment.

[ClairvoyantCat]

I think the big question is still why the TARDIS exploded.  That little bit wasn't even addressed. 


Also,

[ariich]

considering I only understood it after I wikipedia'd it, how on earth was a child meant to understand that episode? It was great, but the plot was very complex for the majority of the audience.

What didn't you understand? I agree that a young child wouldn't get all the finer details/complexities, but that's always the case with family shows/films. But I don't see what was so baffling for an adult.

[ACID_FOX]

[Implode]

I don't get it. I'm so afraid that Moffat's just not going to resolve all these questions we had.

Does this mean that the person in the background of the lake scene was just a production error?

Edit for more questions:

When do we see how the Doctor and River fall in love? I don't get it. It's like they just both kind of accepted that they were supposed to fall in love, but I never saw any actual reason for it to happen.

And does that mean the Doctor still has to tell River her name?

Person in the background of the lake? You mean Canton Delaware? He was invited.

And they've been falling in love for a while, pretty much. Every time they meet, they flirt. It doesn't have to be a single big moment.

I'm wanting a big moment. I think that's just more of my problem.

But as for the guy in the background, I don't mean Canton. I can't find any screenshot of the scene, but it's really easy to see. There's a figure way in the background by that beach house. It's standing right next to it, and after the Doctor Dies, the figure is lying down. It could've been a production error, but since the last time there was a supposed production error, it was during Flesh and Stone when he came back for Amy in a different outfit...everyone thought that figure was going to be important.

I just think I had my expectation too high. I was expecting everything to be tied to together very neatly and have all my questions answered. That wasn't the case at all though. Like the very first question I had when I first saw this series was, "why the space suit?" I don't get it.

And just to be sure, when The Doctor says that he told River his name, he actually told her that he was safe. And that's what River told Amy in the end, right?

[ACID_FOX]

I don't get it. I'm so afraid that Moffat's just not going to resolve all these questions we had.

Does this mean that the person in the background of the lake scene was just a production error?

Edit for more questions:

When do we see how the Doctor and River fall in love? I don't get it. It's like they just both kind of accepted that they were supposed to fall in love, but I never saw any actual reason for it to happen.

And does that mean the Doctor still has to tell River her name?

Person in the background of the lake? You mean Canton Delaware? He was invited.

And they've been falling in love for a while, pretty much. Every time they meet, they flirt. It doesn't have to be a single big moment.

I'm wanting a big moment. I think that's just more of my problem.

But as for the guy in the background, I don't mean Canton. I can't find any screenshot of the scene, but it's really easy to see. There's a figure way in the background by that beach house. It's standing right next to it, and after the Doctor Dies, the figure is lying down. It could've been a production error, but since the last time there was a supposed production error, it was during Flesh and Stone when he came back for Amy in a different outfit...everyone thought that figure was going to be important.

I just think I had my expectation too high. I was expecting everything to be tied to together very neatly and have all my questions answered. That wasn't the case at all though. Like the very first question I had when I first saw this series was, "why the space suit?" I don't get it.

And just to be sure, when The Doctor says that he told River his name, he actually told her that he was safe. And that's what River told Amy in the end, right?

Yeah, he said "look in my eye" indicating the rela version oh himself inside the machine. To be honest not much of it makes sense. If the suit acted by itself why was River even needed? And how did she go from not being able to overpower it to being able to drain its weapons?

[ariich]

Wait, what? When did the suit act by itself? It was partially controlling her, but it still needed her inside it.

[ClairvoyantCat]

It seemed pretty clear that she was largely powerless to control the suit.  Maybe it needed a person inside it, but why did it need to be a time lord, let alone her, if the suit was going to do all of the work anyway?  It seems that they could just strap any bloke in a suit, call it a "fixed point" and have the same effect.   

[ariich]

Except that she wasn't powerless to stop it, because she DID stop it. The thing that she was struggling to overcome was the part of her that had been raised to kill the Doctor.

The only thing I don't really get was why the spacesuit?

[Implode]

The only thing I don't really get was why the spacesuit?

Exactly. If Moffat doesn't come back next season and make things a little more coherent, then I think he's finally tried to be too confusing for his own good.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Except that she wasn't powerless to stop it, because she DID stop it. The thing that she was struggling to overcome was the part of her that had been raised to kill the Doctor.

The only thing I don't really get was why the spacesuit?

The way that she said "The suit's in control" makes it seem a little more likely that the suit is actually in control.  I figured that her draining the weapon systems was just her way of tricking the suit to stop it from acting of its own accord and killing the doctor, and not a control that she was meant to have.  She doesn't seem to be struggling at all with her desire to kill the doctor; you'd think there'd at least be a little sign of it if that were the case. 

[ACID_FOX]

There's no explanation for the whole setup at all. Why do they put her in the water? Where does so go after the kills The Doctor? Why that lake?

[petrucci07]

There's no explanation for the whole setup at all. Why do they put her in the water? Where does so go after the kills The Doctor? Why that lake?

To create a fixed point in time. It's isolated.

[Sigz]

Presumably creating a fixed point in the timeline of the universe is a rather complex operation - hence why they needed an open area that was relatively stable throughout the timeline, as stated in the finale. Following this, it's not surprising that that would apply to the people involved - you need a timelord or someone else who else can operate with some independence to the timeline. The suit was another means of control alongside River's brainwashing to try to help ensure that the Doctor died. Why is it a spacesuit? Because fuck you that's why.

[ACID_FOX]

Well I still don't care for the episode. Also, where the hell is Rob?

[ariich]

Why is it a spacesuit? Because fuck you that's why.

But other than that, I completely agree with your post.

[TheMadgician]

Also, where the hell is Rob?

I've been wondering this for awhile. I always enjoyed talking to him about Doctor Who, he's got that great excitement about him. Very fun.

[Implode]

Here are pics of what I was talking about.

There is a person standing by that beach house.





And after The Doctor gets shot, the figure is lying down.





Do you think it's this guy?

[ClairvoyantCat]

Well I still don't care for the episode. Also, where the hell is Rob?

After reading this post, I spent the longest time trying to remember who "Rob" was in Doctor Who and why he was important.  God dammit Clairvoyantcat. 

[TheMadgician]

So. A few things.

The Doctor lies.
He whispered in her ear to look in his eye, but then proclaimed that he told her his name.

The Doctor lies.
River whispered in his ear and he then proclaimed that she told him his name.

It seems unlikely. But it's Moffat. Perhaps she told him to look into her eye. Perhaps it was another robot like the Tessalecta, with the 11th waiting inside with the TARDIS. Just a thought.

Another thing. I think the voice singing the "Tick tock, goes the clock, even for The Doctor." and all that.  I think that was young Melody Pond. The Melody Pond that called the president.

And one last thing. The time line. Original time line, The Doctor is killed by the astronaut/River. Amy, Rory and River then go to what I think was a restaurant and find the younger Doctor. They then set out on an adventure that leads them back to The God Complex, The Doctor leaving them, and then his death. BUT it showed Amy, Rory, and River drinking together. Amy was still shell shocked and in disbelief that she just saw him die. River than reveals that he's alive. But when would that fit in? Did the time line change? I mean, the fixed point of his "death" remains, but the details around it can change. Do we have altered time line going on? or?

[Sigz]

The Doctor lies.
He whispered in her ear to look in his eye, but then proclaimed that he told her his name.

The Doctor lies.
River whispered in his ear and he then proclaimed that she told him his name.

Huh? When did River whisper to the Doctor?

[Implode]

I think he's referring to Silence in the Library. And I believe that she did tell him his name. 10 has no reason to lie there. The scene is between only the two of them.

[Sigz]

Ooooohhhh ok.

As for the last scene, I have no idea when that takes place.

[ACID_FOX]

Convoluted story is convoluted.

[Nekov]

And one last thing. The time line. Original time line, The Doctor is killed by the astronaut/River. Amy, Rory and River then go to what I think was a restaurant and find the younger Doctor. They then set out on an adventure that leads them back to The God Complex, The Doctor leaving them, and then his death. BUT it showed Amy, Rory, and River drinking together. Amy was still shell shocked and in disbelief that she just saw him die. River than reveals that he's alive. But when would that fit in? Did the time line change? I mean, the fixed point of his "death" remains, but the details around it can change. Do we have altered time line going on? or?

My guess on this one is that the scene where they are drinking happens after The God Complex. That's the only thing that makes sense because Amy would be depressed after the Doctor said good bye and only then would start thinking that he was in fact dead.

[ScioPath]

Am I the only one who thought the final 'question' was stupid and gimmicky?

[ACID_FOX]

Am I the only one who thought the final 'question' was stupid and gimmicky?

Part of me thinks it's gimmicky, part of me things it's kind of cool. I do wish it was something more exiting though, as it's already a question that everyone has already been wondering about for years and we all know we'll never get an answer, so it doesn't exactly get my imagination going for the next series.