Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[SoundscapeMN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm85EgM4GZo

[Lolzeez]

How about just a regular reunion tour? Cause I'm not a huge fan of The Lamb.

[jammindude]

I just cannot see it happening at this point.   Not even for a "one off" performance. 

The theatrics would have to be *completely* reimagined.   (can you imagine PG donning the Slipperman costume?  The very thought sounds more ridiculous than anything else)

I think The Musical Box has Lamb performances down pat.   Any performance by the real Genesis at this point would seem...overshadowed. 

However, I feel completely differently about Lolzeez's suggestion.    I think they should book the Royal Albert Hall for a one off concert and film it.  (like what Cream did in '05)    Done.   Everyone's happy.     Heck, if they did the SEBTP tour setlist with 3 or 4 Lamb songs swapped out, I think it would be the perfect way to go out on top.   

[Orbert]

The problem is that preparing for a single show and preparing for a tour are the same amount of work.  Whether it's one show or 100, you're talking months of rehearsals.  Yes, these are all very talented guys, and they made the music in the first place, but that was 30 years ago and they haven't played any of it in a long, long time.  A few weeks of rehearsal wouldn't be nearly enough; I'm thinking a few months, minimum.  When you're looking at an actual tour, where you'll (presumably) make a lot of money, it might be worth it.  All that work to put on a single show...  I honestly doubt they'd do it.

[jammindude]

The problem is that preparing for a single show and preparing for a tour are the same amount of work.  Whether it's one show or 100, you're talking months of rehearsals.  Yes, these are all very talented guys, and they made the music in the first place, but that was 30 years ago and they haven't played any of it in a long, long time.  A few weeks of rehearsal wouldn't be nearly enough; I'm thinking a few months, minimum.  When you're looking at an actual tour, where you'll (presumably) make a lot of money, it might be worth it.  All that work to put on a single show...  I honestly doubt they'd do it.

Well, Cream did it exactly that way.    So did Zeppelin for that matter. 

It may not make a difference in rehearsals....but I think you're grossly understating the logistics of taking a major tour on the road vs. just setting up a single show that doesn't have to travel.   

[Orbert]

I never said anything about logistics.  I was strictly talking about the rehearsals.  The music.

And nothing against Cream and Led Zeppelin, but their music just isn't nearly as dependent upon technical precision as Gabriel-era Genesis.  With Cream and Zep, their music is less complex, more rooted in rhythm and blues, and with a lot of built-in room for improvisation and groove.  Early Genesis depended heavily upon intricate arrangements.  More musicians onstage, more interplay between them, greater emphasis on dynamics, more complex music in general.

Page and Plant had been playing Led Zeppelin music in various mutations for years before the O2 event.  Jones is easily the most musically gifted of the three and it was just a matter of getting him into the fold.  And if you listen to the undoctored tapes, the performance itself was far from perfect.

I've never heard a recording of the 2005 Cream show, so I can't comment on it, but I think it's pretty obvious that preparing for such a show would not be nearly the endeavor that preparing a performance of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway would be.

I'm not claiming that any of these bands is better than any of the others; that's strictly up to personal taste.  And I'm not saying that Genesis couldn't do it.  What I'm saying is that they know how much prep work would be required, and simply would opt not to do it.  What would be the point?  To relive some past glory?  Most of them speak very fondly of the early 70's band, but they make it just as clear that it is not likely to happen again.  They won't say "never", but let's face it; it's not gonna happen.  It would be a disappointment to the band as well as the fans.  Why put yourself through that?

[KevShmev]

Yep, that is what I always say, Orbert.  Not just the work they'd have to put into it, but neither Gabriel nor Collins are even close to the singers they were in the 70s, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't what a hear a 60-year old Peter Gabriel struggling to sing and/or having to talk his way through In the Cage and The Lamia.  The band is simply too old to do something like The Lamb justice, musically and vocally.

[snowdog]

Yeah they would need to  rehearse a lot.  I've listened to the Reunion show from '82 and it definitely had flaws.  Granted a lot of it was Gabriel not having doing that in years (not remembering things too much, the rest of the band making some arrangement changes to the songs,etc).  But the majority of the songs Genesis had played fairly recently.  Supper's Ready had been in rotation for almost 2 months prior for instance.  I'm pretty sure they only had a day or two to rehearse that and even with the band in good form, things weren't perfect. 

So for this to work out well, they need a LOT of prep work especially given how much rust all of this music will have had.  And even then, I'm not sure how Phil and Peter would hold up singing that material.  I'd be worried they'd downtune every single thing. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Well. I feel kinda silly now.

I've always gone on record saying that of Genesis' most renowned albums from the Gabriel-era, I never understood how Foxtrot stood out against the likes of Nursery Cryme or Selling England as their best album. I listened to it many times and liked it, but didn't think it stood out against the fold against the aforementioned two--those being my two favorite of the band's output. I could never really put my finger on it either, but it didn't grasp me like the other two did and lacked the interest to my ears. Supper's Ready, I recall, was actually a bit of a disappointment because it's been hyped up as one of progressive rock's golden epics, even as one of the best songs ever, but failed to live up to my expectations.

Then I decided to spin a bunch of Genesis a while ago--mainly because I just felt like it--and when I got to Foxtrot, I decided to give it another go, because, eh? Why not? Gotta give em all a fair shot.

Then Foxtrot proceeded to smack me the fuck up and show me the error of my ways.

It's another thing I can't put my finger on, but after not having listened to it in a long time, this time it wowed me a good number of times and kept my interest throughout. By the end, I was actually stunned as my enjoyment from the album grew immensely. I suddenly heard the appeal of Get 'Em Out by Friday and Can-Utility, both of which were always somewhat skipable songs to me. I can't say it's my favorite of their releases, but if this trend continues, it might be an essential album of theirs in my eyes.

Anyway, I guess I just felt like sharing that trivial bit of trivia. Has anyone else had this happen with a Genesis release?

[jammindude]

Selling England was the grower for me. Foxtrot hit me right away, and Lamb is still spotty for me. (disc 1 is AMAZING, while disc 2 has great moments...and ok moments)

[SomeoneLikeHim]

Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England are all pretty much equal to me. The Lamb is my favorite though.

I saw Steve Hackett live yesterday. Awesome show, really fun to hear all the classics live.

[Orbert]

Has anyone else had this happen with a Genesis release?

Not really, but Genesis is one of my favorite bands, and I think it's cool that you've finally come to appreciate Foxtrot.  It is an excellent album.  That one and Nursery Cryme are something of a pair to me, the same way A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are.  Each has a strong initial effort from a new lineup, keeping essential elements of the previous work while also forging ahead; then the second of each pair is the more refined, more mature follow-up from the same lineup, building on the previous work.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Selling England was the album that got me hooked on Genesis. That one hit me right away. I think when that Firth of Fifth solo came up, I was sold.

I'd always consider it my favorite of theirs, which it probably still is. I think what I liked a lot about Nursery Cryme was this fun, almost quirky feeling in a lot of the songs that seems largely absent on Foxtrot. It's a different effort altogether from its predecessor and on the many re-listens I've had on it recently I've found that it seems like a more refined version of NC.

[Tom Bombadil]

Foxtrot has always been my favorite,  but recently The Lamb has really started clicking, although,  as I've mentioned before,  I think the live version is 1000 times better.

[ColdFireYYZ]

Foxtrot is my favorite Genesis album, and Can-Utility is probably in my top 5 Genesis songs.

With me, A Trick of the Tail took a while to appreciate. I absolutely love it now, and it's probably my second favorite. Some of Genesis's best music is on that album, such as Dance on a Volcano and Entangled, the latter being quite underrated IMO.

[KevShmev]

Foxtrot is great, but while it is far better than everything that came before it, it is topped by the three, and possibly four, albums that came after it. 

Having said that, Supper's Ready and Can-Utlitily... are definitely two of my favorite Genesis songs of any era, without a doubt.

[Tom Bombadil]

Foxtrot is my favorite Genesis album, and Can-Utility is probably in my top 5 Genesis songs.

Can-Utility is easily my favorite Genesis song, and one of my favorite songs of all time. It's such an underrated gem. The epitome of what prog music is all about.

[rumborak]

In my book, Genesis is untouched in the epics department. I think it's mostly due to Tony Banks, he just has these weird and bombastic chords.

[ytserush]

Still prefer Gabriel and post-Gabriel Genesis to anything while he was still in the band.
Guess you had to be there and I wasn't.

[Orbert]

You like Peter Gabriel solo, and Genesis after Peter left, but not Genesis while Peter was still in the band?

[Cyclopssss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSXLRByVcvU&hd=1

Nice version by Hackett of ´Carpet Crawlers´

[rumborak]

Kinda weird to see Wilson sing yet another Genesis song.

[ytserush]

You like Peter Gabriel solo, and Genesis after Peter left, but not Genesis while Peter was still in the band?

It's not that I don't like Gabriel-Genesis, it's just that I don't attach otherworldly significance to it like I do with solo Gabriel and post-Gabriel Genesis.  It's just kind of "there." I don't seem to be getting out of it what a lot of other people around here do.

[Orbert]

 A lot of it is a combination of how unique the music was at the time and the players involved, and of course personal taste.  Early Genesis combined English whimsy and storytelling with some early yet very mature progressive rock.  Banks on keyboards and Hackett on guitar were both virtuosos from the very start, and only got better.  Collins' drumming was amazingly intricate yet tight, and could also be heavy when it was called for.  You had the acoustic side, with two 12-strings and a six, you had Gabriel's unique voice... I mean, there was a huge amount of talent there, and it came through in every aspect of their music.

But it still comes down to taste.  If it doesn't thrill you, it doesn't.  You can't force yourself to like something, but I would at least suggest you give it another try.  There's only four albums from the classic lineup (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway).

[ytserush]

A lot of it is a combination of how unique the music was at the time and the players involved, and of course personal taste.  Early Genesis combined English whimsy and storytelling with some early yet very mature progressive rock.  Banks on keyboards and Hackett on guitar were both virtuosos from the very start, and only got better.  Collins' drumming was amazingly intricate yet tight, and could also be heavy when it was called for.  You had the acoustic side, with two 12-strings and a six, you had Gabriel's unique voice... I mean, there was a huge amount of talent there, and it came through in every aspect of their music.

But it still comes down to taste.  If it doesn't thrill you, it doesn't.  You can't force yourself to like something, but I would at least suggest you give it another try.  There's only four albums from the classic lineup (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway).

Those years for me seem to be more about Emerson, Lake and Palmer, King Crimson, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu, Yes and Chicago among others.

No doubt Genesis were unique (as was just about any other band from that time) but it never really grabbed me. Maybe the sonic aspect of it plays a part.

I still grab a random Gabriel-Genesis album (except the first one- don't have that yet although I've heard it) from the shelf every few months or so and it's okay. Just not getting a lot of what some others get out of it.

[LudwigVan]

I used to be a Peter Gabriel -era Genesis snob, but I now think that the 5 Collins-era albums that followed it are every bit as good if not better.

[rumborak]

It's a knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people to shit on Collins-era Genesis because they got super-famous with stuff like I Can't Dance and Follow You Follow Me. While those songs aren't bad by any means, there's a ton of actual gems on those albums. Take Driving The Last Spike, or one of my all-time favorites, Domino. That easily compares to the Gabriel-era.

EDIT: I remember seeing a documentary where Phil was talking about I Can't Dance, and he mentioned that Roger Waters apparently didn't approve of the song, finding it silly and juvenile. I loved Phil's response: "Yeah, he didn't see the humor in it. Then again, he didn't see the humor in a lot of things". I always thought that was a very apt description of Roger Waters

[sneakyblueberry]

I used to be a Peter Gabriel -era Genesis snob, but I now think that the 5 Collins-era albums that followed it are every bit as good if not better.

Absolutely.  I rate stuff like One for the Vine, Deep in the Motherlode quite highly.  I think they're the perfect fusion of Prog pomposity and pop sensibility.

I recently had a wee resurgence in Genesis.  After watching Hackett's Genesis Revisited, I gave The Lamb a spin (as well as the live stuff from the Archive and some other boots that I had kicking round), and was amazed at how I had overlooked Hackett's contributions to that album.  The Lamia and It have some especially beautiful guitar work, that only Steve could've dreamt up and played in his signature way. 

[Cyclopssss]

So true. Been giving Trick of the tail and Wind and wuthering a spin today. Totally amazed by the athmosphere on those albums.

[jammindude]

JUST POSTED ON THE OFFICIAL GENESIS FACEBOOK PAGE!!!

"Genesis and the BBC have been working together over the last few months on GENESIS: TOGETHER AND APART

A feature length documentary on one of the most successful bands in rock history. From its first beginnings as a band of songwriters in the late 1960s to its final incarnation as a rock giant in the 1990s – via full-blown theatrical progressive rock in the mid-1970s and the subtler jazzy pop of the early 1980s – Genesis could perplex and enrage the die-hards, whilst exciting and exhilarating the newer disciples.

Made with the full co-operation of Genesis, the film reunites all original members of the band together – Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Mike Rutherford – for the first time since 1975.

The film recounts an extraordinary musical story, exploring the band's songwriting as well as emotional highs and lows, alongside previously unseen archive material and rare performance footage across their entire career.

Transmission date to be confirmed."

[Zydar]

Wow! Can't wait to see it 

And the guys look great together 

[Orbert]

Sounds pretty cool.  I'll definitely check it out.

[Tom Bombadil]

This sounds great. Thanks for the heads up JD

[snowdog]

I'm looking forward to seeing it even though I'm sure I'll learn nothing new.

[Zydar]

Some clarification from Steve: