Genesis Appreciation/Discussion

[Orbert]

Sheesh.  The press started creaming their shorts as soon as they heard Genesis was getting together to do this documentary thing, even though it was made very clear by everyone involved that it was just for the documentary.  No album, no one-off gig, please shut the fuck up.  Of course someone asked if there might be something down the road, and nobody likes to say "never" anymore so of course it turned into "They might!" and somehow "They're getting together and might do a new album or one-off gig or something!" and everyone had to go home and change their pants again.

Seriously, do people completely lack reading comprehension and common sense?  That's rhetorical, by the way.  The answer is No.

[dreamtheaters#1fan]

I definitely want to see this tour.  I hope we get more than just the Lamb, though.  Maybe "Supper's Ready" as an encore.

[Zydar]

What tour...?

[genome]

I don't know how good a tour would be to be honest, I'm not sure Phil would drum that's for sure. I saw them in the 2007 reunion tour, and apparently even then he was having trouble with some songs.

Great gig though. Los Endos blew the roof off. Well, figuratively as it was an open air stadium but you get the picture.

The documentary is going to be great!

[ColdFireYYZ]

After seeing Steve Hackett's Genesis Revisited band, I have absolutely no desire to see a Genesis reunion. Collins probably wouldn't be able to drum and Gabriel can't hit the notes any more. No clue if Banks or Rutherford could still play the old stuff as well as they used to, but neither seem interested in doing so. Not only is Hackett's playing still top-notch, but he and his band are genuinely enthusiastic about playing the songs, and they're probably better than a Genesis reunion will ever be at this point in time.

[dreamtheaters#1fan]

Well I, for one, am excited to see these guys playing together again.  Sure, it probably won't be as precise as Hackett's band and the Musical Box, but there's a certain magic that comes with seeing the people who actually created the music go out there and perform these songs.  And it will be fun watching Peter Gabriel put on all of those crazy costumes again.

[Zydar]

What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.

[Nel_Annette]

So about 4/5 years ago, I bought those three box sets with most of the studio albums (not From Genesis To Revelation).

I finally got around to getting the grey one with the live stuff. Should be in the mail soon.  All that leaves is the Movie Box.

[rumborak]

What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.

You and your facts. You're so ... unimaginative!

Seriously though, I think they just put the official kabosh on this thing. As PC said in that one interview, what would he even do in a Genesis reunion? He can't play the drums, and PG would sing. Should he just stand there on stage and smile?

[dreamtheaters#1fan]

What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.

You and your facts. You're so ... unimaginative!

Seriously though, I think they just put the official kabosh on this thing. As PC said in that one interview, what would he even do in a Genesis reunion? He can't play the drums, and PG would sing. Should he just stand there on stage and smile?

I think he's going to play the tambourine during the Lamb and then sing some of the 80s stuff during the encore.

[Orbert]

Seriously, are you trolling?  It's been stated repeatedly, including quotes from almost all band members, that they are not playing, just "reuniting" to make the documentary.

[The Letter M]

Yeah, seriously, where is your "source" that they're going to play together again, let alone of all things, The Lamb?

If anything, they'd do ONE show with the 5 members, plus Chester (on drums) and maybe Daryl on Guitar. Heck, why not get Ant and Ray out there as well.

But any performance that includes Collins, Hackett, and Gabriel will never happen again.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

My source claims they are gonna do a reunion tour that will feature a 33-minute version of Illegal Alien.

[The Letter M]

My source claims they are gonna do a reunion tour that will feature a 33-minute version of Illegal Alien.

I heard it was a 20-minute remix of "Who Dunnit?" with Gabriel on kazoo!

-Marc.

[Mister Gold]

I'm currently listening to Seconds Out and I'm thoroughly convinced that it has the best version of "Supper's Ready" ever, at least musically. Sure, Phil was nowhere near as eccentric or theatrical as Peter was live, but his vocal performance here is outstanding. Just elevates the song to a whole other level.

[Orbert]

I like the Seconds Out version, too.  It was my first Genesis album, and the original studio version is also great, but sounds so dry and reserved compared to the Seconds Out version.

[Mister Gold]

I like the Seconds Out version, too.  It was my first Genesis album, and the original studio version is also great, but sounds so dry and reserved compared to the Seconds Out version.

Another thing with comparing Phil and Peter on the song is that a big portion of the charm with Peter's version was his costumes and visual accompaniment to the song. That adds a lot if you're watching a live video or seeing it in person, but if you're just listening to it with only the audio, I think Phil easily takes the cake.

[Orbert]

Totally agree.

I've stated that Phil is much more expressive than Peter, and had many Gabriel defenders tell me that it's really just a difference in style.  Peter's style is more quiet, controlled intensity whereas Phil just belts it out.

"Six six six is no longer alone!"  Phil is belting it out, it's echoing through the hall.  In the original studio version (and also the version originally recorded for Genesis Live which finally surfaced many years later), you can hear a certain amount of emotion in the words, but it just wasn't Peter's style to wail.  And in a live setting, I want the big and bombastic.

[Mister Gold]

Totally agree.

I've stated that Phil is much more expressive than Peter, and had many Gabriel defenders tell me that it's really just a difference in style.  Peter's style is more quiet, controlled intensity whereas Phil just belts it out.

"Six six six is no longer alone!"  Phil is belting it out, it's echoing through the hall.  In the original studio version (and also the version originally recorded for Genesis Live which finally surfaced many years later), you can hear a certain amount of emotion in the words, but it just wasn't Peter's style to wail.  And in a live setting, I want the big and bombastic.

Definitely.

I've actually seen people compare Phil's version to being Disney-fied and saying he hams it up too much. While I can understand people not liking his more bombastic approach, I think the only reason anyone used "Disney" to describe his version is Tarzan and Brother Bear which actually had some great music imo.

[Orbert]

He does ham it up.  "Too much" is a matter of taste and opinion.  There are times when I think Phil goes too far, but in general, I like a live performance to sound live, not like the original version that happens to be performed in front of an audience.

[Mister Gold]

He does ham it up.  "Too much" is a matter of taste and opinion.  There are times when I think Phil goes too far, but in general, I like a live performance to sound live, not like the original version that happens to be performed in front of an audience.

Indeed. Like, Phil definitely goes really wacky during Willow Farm, but then again, that part sort of requires its singer to go wacky to begin with.

[Cable]

Well in light of the discussion, I will just say it; IMO, Peter's Genesis album vocals <<< Phil's Genesis album vocals.   

Peter's vocals/melodies are one of the two things that truly hold back my adoration for the band. And I like Peter's present voice more than back then because it's more controlled, and not as theatrical. So I'm one of the nutters that would want a performance with him (yeah, won't happen).

[Harmony]

All eras fan here.   

Don't make me choose between Phil and Peter.  I simply can't do it.

[ytserush]

All eras fan here.   

Don't make me choose between Phil and Peter.  I simply can't do it.

I'm so glad I don't have that problem.


Quick question.

Anyone know if any more Savoy tracks from 11/81  (a few of which are on the Archive 2 box) can be found anyplace else? 

I listened to disc three of the set  again last night and forgot how Phil is really KILLING it that night. Just wondering if there are any goodies anywhere else.

[Zydar]

Genesis just announced a 3 CD set:

"Spanning an incredible 42 years, 'R-Kive' is a new 3-CD, 37-track set that documents the band's history in the most comprehensive way yet. Compiled by the band themselves via a process of collaboration and elimination, 'R-Kive' takes an in-depth, chronological journey through the catalogue and - for the first time ever for a Genesis collection - includes three personally chosen selections from the solo careers of Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Mike Rutherford / Mike + The Mechanics."




Release date 22 September according to Amazon.

[Orbert]

"R-Kive"?

Seriously?

[Cyclopssss]

I agree, that´s awful.

[The Letter M]

The surprise was spoiled when someone noticed an Amazon listing for the Genesis "R-Kive" (gag  ) earlier this week. Another cash-grab compilation. How similar will this be to the previous 3CD Compilation? I'm sure these will be pulled from the box-set remasters. I really wish this was a video, or a concert from the past. The only thing of interest would be the solo/related-band tracks, but anyone who is already a fan of Genesis should just get those band members' albums, and there's a LOT to choose from.

*Sigh* Yes release a less-than-stellar new album, Pink Floyd are set to bring out leftover session music, and Genesis toss out another cash-grab compilation. At least King Crimson are working on a new tour and hopefully new material. Who would have thought that the one old prog dinosaur who "called it quits" (I'm look at you Fripp) would decide to come back and tour with a new band when these other bands are pushing out sub-par releases? Granted, we haven't heard a note of the new PF album, but I'm keeping my expectations low since TDB was such a high note to end their career on.

I would've been more excited if Genesis decided to just say "Hey - we're calling it quits NOW, so don't expect anything else from us any more" just so we can all stop speculating on possibilities and rumors.

-Marc.

[lonestar]

So, so lame.

[Nel_Annette]

Got excited for frickin' nothing. That cover? They announced it as the new logo. Why have a new logo if you aren't doing shit? I have all four CD box sets and the debut album, I doubt I need this for anything.

[The Letter M]

Got excited for frickin' nothing. That cover? They announced it as the new logo. Why have a new logo if you aren't doing shit? I have all four CD box sets and the debut album, I doubt I need this for anything.

Precisely. This isn't for old or seasoned fans. This is for new fans who, if you still haven't listened to Genesis or it's related bands and solo artists by now, I GUESS this box set is for you. But honestly, there are better ways to get in to Genesis with their other compilations, and even their solo artists have compilations that will do a better job of showcasing those acts with more than just three songs. Who cares if those three songs were "hand-picked" by the artists themselves? I guarantee those three will be found on any compilation by said band/artist, especially Phil and Peter, and most likely Steve and Mike as well.

-Marc.

[Mosh]

Genesis isn't even a band that you should use compilations to get into anyway IMO. Listen to Selling England and Invisible Touch. You get a taste of the two major eras and you'll know where to go from there.

[The Letter M]

Genesis isn't even a band that you should use compilations to get into anyway IMO. Listen to Selling England and Invisible Touch. You get a taste of the two major eras and you'll know where to go from there.

IMO, you should start from Trespass and move onward. Hearing their prog roots in the Gabriel-era shines light on their music as it evolved into pop-rock, with that tinge of prog you hear in tracks like "Fading Lights" and "Driving Home The Last Spike", or most of Duke. They changed, but it was an evolution and not a sudden change, unlike bands like Yes or even King Crimson, both of which had drastic line-up changes that affected the band's sound. Genesis lost members, tweaks sounds, and each album was slightly different than the last, but moving forward to something new.

There can be fans of IT and WCD who probably skip the longer songs and only like the hit singles, and there can be fans of SEBTP and ATOTT that love the proggy, complex stuff the most, but to truly understand the band and their journey, the beginning-to-end is the way to go. At least, from Trespass to We Can't Dance.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

Well said.

On the other hand, not everyone has the means to start from the beginning and check them all out, or the time to do so.  A compilation isn't necessarily a bad way to get a taste for how their sound evolved over time, but it has to be a good compilation.  Not just "greatest hits over the years" but with representative album tracks as well, and arranged chronologically.  I always find it stupid when they shuffle everything together because "it's all Genesis" or whoever the band is.

[Mosh]

Well said.

On the other hand, not everyone has the means to start from the beginning and check them all out, or the time to do so. A compilation isn't necessarily a bad way to get a taste for how their sound evolved over time, but it has to be a good compilation.  Not just "greatest hits over the years" but with representative album tracks as well, and arranged chronologically.  I always find it stupid when they shuffle everything together because "it's all Genesis" or whoever the band is.

This is why I'd opt for IT and Selling England. You get a taste of both eras at their strengths, and you can choose where to go from there. If you prefer IT you can delve more into the pop albums first, if you prefer Selling England you can delve into the  prog stuff. I think that makes more sense than a compilation for a band like Genesis. Especially given their changes in sound over the years and how consistent their albums tend to be IMO.