The 24 bit versions of Dramatic Turn, DT12 and D/T have noticeably less compression which is far easier on the ears (mine anyway, I did notice a sizeable difference and I'd *never* want to go back to listening to their CD counterparts anymore. Literally pain inducing to me.), higher dynamic range too (and higher resolution of course) You can read the DR values on the DR database: https://dr.loudness-war.info/?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Dream+theater

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on May 23, 2024, 11:27:05 AM
So is the mastering the same for the HD versions of ADToE and the s/t? I know the mastering is different for d/t. I think that would make more of a difference than just increasing the resolution. There's a reason why Sony and Philips went with 16/44.1 as opposed to something higher: because there's no real audible difference with anything higher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44,100_Hz

Yeah, the "hi res" aspect is kinda unnecessary.  But, often they do have a different master, in which case they tend to sound better.  I haven't checked out the hdtracks versions of these specific albums, though, so don't know if that's the case with them.

It's certainly true they will contain less compression, Max is right. But that won't change the fundamental sound of the album unless they've also been remixed and remastered. Less compression alone will not make A Dramatic Turn of Events sound like a totally different album although some will certainly prefer the increased sibilance it may confer. It still sounds as boxy as cluck because the mids are overloaded for many of our tastes.

That said, if people think it sounds like a different album, brilliant. It means they'll get to enjoy it now which is great because yes, it's a really good album. Well, except for the saccharine ballads, of course

This is exactly what was the case for me. I enjoyed Dramatic Turn and DT12 musically (always did, still do of course) but I always thought: why do they sound so horrible on CD? This can't have been how it was actually recorded (and it wasn't, as John mentioned). Is there a way to actually listen to these albums as recorded? You can imagine my relief when I first listened to these in 24 bit. One's mileage will vary though I'm sure (as Scotty would say)

Late to the party but my ranking of the albums:

A Dramatic Turn of Events
Distance Over Time
A View from the Top of the World
Dream Theater
The Astonishing

ADTOE is a top 5 album for me.

I've been trying to decide for a couple of hours now, but it's so hard! I feel like this era has been impressively consistent and great, and holds up, even within DT's entire catalog. Anyway, here's my current version of my ever-changing list:

1) A Dramatic Turn of Events
2) Distance over Time
3) The Astonishing
4) A View from the Top of the World
5) Dream Theater


And then, some thoughts in random order:

As many have pointed out, TA hasn't had the best longevity of the lineup. It was definitely my #1 of the Mangini era when it came out (maybe even overall. maybe.), and stayed there for a couple of years. However, due to the long runtime and padding, I don't revisit it often anymore. It might drop further down my list in the coming years. Mangini also feels really anonymous in this one, but other than that the musicianship is fantastic.

Then there's the use of vocal effects on DoT. This was something I really didn't mind or really think about when the album came out, but something that started getting more noticeable and a bit more irritating after View came out. Therefore it might be an album that gets harder to revisit over time (lol). However, at present, I still find it to be an exceptional album from start to finish. Not afraid of being balls to the wall sometimes, and super-emotional at other times. All killers, except Untethered Angel, which I'm a bit mixed on. Something about that chorus annoys me.

DT12 has been a constant grower for the past 11 years, and tbh might still be growing on me. It's just packed with a lot of great emotional set-pieces, and pretty good lyrics. I'm not in the camp of thinking the drum-sound is unlistenable. Maybe it's because I greatly enjoy EDM, and the snare is kinda punchy? Idk. I'm not a big enjoyer of the two instrumentals though. "Enigma Machine" is OK, but feels really 'by the number' for DT. "Along for the ride" is OK-ish, but I feel like it could've been so much better if they worked a bit more one it. It's just missing some of that DT magic. One thing they did a lot on this album was doing like a call-and-response-thing on JLBs vocals, where the response has a kind-of old radio-effect on it. I kinda hate it, haha. The cover-art is also pretty lame. "Illumination Theory" is fantastic though. Might be in the upper echelon of epics. Maybe.

View is probably one of the most consistent records they've ever done, with no real lows. Though the highs aren't really that high. One thing they did here that I'm not a big fan of is that they're doubling the guitars, playing both solo and riff/rhythm in the solo-sections. The absent of this was definitely one of my favourite parts of D/T, because it just made the dynamics so cool and interesting. JM and JR could really colour in the sound without JP. As for the rest, the album is just really easy to listen to and enjoy. Hopefully they'll do more of the Rush-esque tribute songs like "Transcending Time" (and "The Looking Glass" from DT12) in the future. It fits perfectly for them in the late-stage of their career.

Lastly, ADToE is just a perfect DT-album. It just oozes of vitality, virtuosity, originality and creativity. And I don't mind them looking back to I&W for some inspiration at all--it's their own album. This is also the start of what feels like the more condensed DT, where they started roping in the runtime on the instrumental sections of the songs. The album simultaneously feels like a classic DT-album and a breath of fresh air, at the same time. It also delivers some absolute earworms in the choruses. I kinda don't mind the less punchy production on this, and probably prefer it to quite a few in DTs catalog. Although I would say that the whole band doesn't really shine in the mixing of this one.


Thanks for reading!:~)

I agree with almost everything you said impolybius.

ADToE is my #2 album and the View has no lows, no skips. IT is a top song for me and I thought I was the only one who like Enigma Machine:). DoT Has 2 top tier songs (BW and AWE) that never get old. I love TA, but you are right, there isn't time to listen to it much, although when some of the songs pop up in a rotation, I really enjoy them. (From Three Days to the Walking Shadow).

Quote from: impolybius on June 17, 2024, 06:56:47 AM
I've been trying to decide for a couple of hours now, but it's so hard! I feel like this era has been impressively consistent and great, and holds up, even within DT's entire catalog. Anyway, here's my current version of my ever-changing list:

1) A Dramatic Turn of Events
2) Distance over Time
3) The Astonishing
4) A View from the Top of the World
5) Dream Theater


And then, some thoughts in random order:

As many have pointed out, TA hasn't had the best longevity of the lineup. It was definitely my #1 of the Mangini era when it came out (maybe even overall. maybe.), and stayed there for a couple of years. However, due to the long runtime and padding, I don't revisit it often anymore. It might drop further down my list in the coming years. Mangini also feels really anonymous in this one, but other than that the musicianship is fantastic.

Then there's the use of vocal effects on DoT. This was something I really didn't mind or really think about when the album came out, but something that started getting more noticeable and a bit more irritating after View came out. Therefore it might be an album that gets harder to revisit over time (lol). However, at present, I still find it to be an exceptional album from start to finish. Not afraid of being balls to the wall sometimes, and super-emotional at other times. All killers, except Untethered Angel, which I'm a bit mixed on. Something about that chorus annoys me.

DT12 has been a constant grower for the past 11 years, and tbh might still be growing on me. It's just packed with a lot of great emotional set-pieces, and pretty good lyrics. I'm not in the camp of thinking the drum-sound is unlistenable. Maybe it's because I greatly enjoy EDM, and the snare is kinda punchy? Idk. I'm not a big enjoyer of the two instrumentals though. "Enigma Machine" is OK, but feels really 'by the number' for DT. "Along for the ride" is OK-ish, but I feel like it could've been so much better if they worked a bit more one it. It's just missing some of that DT magic. One thing they did a lot on this album was doing like a call-and-response-thing on JLBs vocals, where the response has a kind-of old radio-effect on it. I kinda hate it, haha. The cover-art is also pretty lame. "Illumination Theory" is fantastic though. Might be in the upper echelon of epics. Maybe.

View is probably one of the most consistent records they've ever done, with no real lows. Though the highs aren't really that high. One thing they did here that I'm not a big fan of is that they're doubling the guitars, playing both solo and riff/rhythm in the solo-sections. The absent of this was definitely one of my favourite parts of D/T, because it just made the dynamics so cool and interesting. JM and JR could really colour in the sound without JP. As for the rest, the album is just really easy to listen to and enjoy. Hopefully they'll do more of the Rush-esque tribute songs like "Transcending Time" (and "The Looking Glass" from DT12) in the future. It fits perfectly for them in the late-stage of their career.

Lastly, ADToE is just a perfect DT-album. It just oozes of vitality, virtuosity, originality and creativity. And I don't mind them looking back to I&W for some inspiration at all--it's their own album. This is also the start of what feels like the more condensed DT, where they started roping in the runtime on the instrumental sections of the songs. The album simultaneously feels like a classic DT-album and a breath of fresh air, at the same time. It also delivers some absolute earworms in the choruses. I kinda don't mind the less punchy production on this, and probably prefer it to quite a few in DTs catalog. Although I would say that the whole band doesn't really shine in the mixing of this one.


Thanks for reading!:~)

Nice to hear from you! But are you really going to continue with the 1 post per year approach?

Commit to the bit

Quote from: Dream Team on June 17, 2024, 06:19:33 PM
Nice to hear from you! But are you really going to continue with the 1 post per year approach?

Yes. ;~)

Quote from: impolybius on June 18, 2024, 03:18:04 PM
Yes. ;~)

Too late, you've already broken the pattern! 

So..I haven't responded in this thread yet, and I've been meaning to for months. This has actually been one of the most thought provoking threads on the DT side, and I have really enjoyed reading all of the opinions.
Honestly, I am still shocked at how many fans kind of turned off after MP left. Drummers do matter, especially when you're really comfortable with a certain style, and DT couldn't have had two more stylistically different drummers. They are both amazing.

The other thing I feel is that they really got the perfect replacement, in my opinion. I didn't really know Mike Mangini before. I mean, I'm sure any number of drummers would've worked just fine. I liked Mangini's technical drumming, even if it was hard to hook onto sometimes. I just liked being wowed by it, and DT made some ridiculous passages during this era.

Mangini had a great personality, and whatever you may think of the live shows, he was a great showman, constantly interacting with his bandmates and the crowd.
If I had one complaint, I feel like he may have been too reserved in the whole process. He was too respectful, IMO, of his place in the band. There's been a lot of talk lately about what MP brings to the writing process. With Mangini, were they too technical in spots? Not sure, but even ranking them, I really love these 5 albums for the most part.

There's a lot of talk about James recently as well, and I always questioned him recording his vocals on his own with Richard Chyki.  I honestly don't think James was maximised on record during this era, save for The Astonishing. For TA, was JP more hands on? Was James more motivated?  I don't know. I feel like the vocals were generally an afterthought as opposed to part of the building process. Perhaps having MP in the room may help this dynamic out...I hope.

1. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
I suppose like a coaching change in sports, a lineup change to a band can bring a new and inspired energy. I thought DT knocked it out of the park on this album. Breaking All Illusion, I feel like is the signature track from this era. Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry are personal favorites of mine. Really grandiose. Honestly I love every song on this album save for BMUBMD. The two mellower songs, Fare From Heaven and Beneath The Surface were quite different for them, apologies to the lame Vacant and Out Of Reach.

2. A View From The Top Of The World
One thing that I thought DT needed was a technically dense showoffy kind of album. At least that's what I was hoping for, and I got it was A View. It's had trouble catching on with a large part of the fan base. perhaps, despite is melodic passages, there's a lack of melody as a whole on the album. I think The Alien and Sleeping Giant are two of this era's best tracks. There's not song I don't like, and frankly, I love pretty much all of this album. If Invisible Monster is the weakest track, then it's one of the best weakest tracks of any DT album, IMO.

3. The Astonishing
I think this is a tremendous piece of work. yeah, the story is a bit corny, but I'm not too fussed about it. There are so many beautiful passages on this album. As a whole, it can be daunting and sometimes monotonous to get through, but I made my own personal Astonishing Abridged, and I'd hold that up to any album in their catalog. If I had to pick a favorite song, I'd go with The Gift Of Music, which to me succinctly collects everything that's great about Dream Theater in four minutes. James is amazing on this, and like I alluded to in the intro to this post...I have to wonder what was different.

4. Distance Over Time
I love a lot of this album. My faves are Fall Into The Light and Barstool Warrior, along with At Wit's End. I think S2N is pretty awesome, and Pale Blue Dot certainly gave us a glimpse of what was coming on their next album. Paralyzed and Room 137 are pretty mediocre, but I do appreciate Room 137. Out Of Reach is brutally awful though. One oftheir worst IMO.

5. Dream Theater
This is pretty close with DoT. I think if they didn't ruin Illumination Theory with the ridiculously unneeded orchestra part in the middle, I might rank this album higher. I edited out that part, and the songs is much better. I'm not sure the "You'll never know" part was executed as well as it could've been though. I love The Enemy Inside, and I also think False Awakening Suite is sneaky awesome. Never gets mentioned with their instrumentals, but it's a tremendous piece of music. The Enigma Machine, on the other hand... is not.


The fact of the matter is that I think so highly of these albums, it's actually tempering my anticipation of DT16. I can see why they made the change, and I expect the new album to blow me away, but there's part of me that feels bad that the Mangini Era is over...musically.

Quote from: Jamesman42 on November 08, 2023, 05:49:44 PM
I will admit that the last 3 albums need more listening time, though my initial impressions are that they aren't as good as ADTOE and DT12.

1. ADTOE: Easily the best album, even with 2 filler tracks. OTBOA is the best song, though Bridges almost is the best (I just do not like that overly long intro). BAI is also solid, and This is the Life feels underrated to me.
2. DT12: Lots of good songs, though I still need to listen to it more, I get lost toward the end of it.

Again, these albums do need more chances. But right now, this is where they land.

3. D/T: I have a couple of songs I like, but not familiar enough to see how it holds up to DT12.
4. AVFTTOTW: Listened twice and it was a struggle. I was incredibly bored.
5. TA: same as #4 but almost twice as long.

Giving d/t and View more listens now, this is still true, though d/t is more solid than I knew back then.

Still need to give TA a proper listen but it feels daunting. Anyone got like the best 5-8 songs off the album? I want to make a small playlist and then go from there.

Brilliant post Tim!!!!

I agree 120% with Tim about the overall feel about Mangini era and the way he compares him to Portnoy. My perception is that if this era wasn't good enough it never would have lasted 13 years and more than 6 hours (!!) of original songs. It had to be ended just because of the massive weight (historically, musically and commercially) of the classic line-up and the good relashionships restored between them.

Quote from: TAC on June 27, 2024, 03:58:27 PM
So..I haven't responded in this thread yet, and I've been meaning to for months. This has actually been one of the most thought provoking threads on the DT side, and I have really enjoyed reading all of the opinions.
Honestly, I am still shocked at how many fans kind of turned off after MP left. Drummers do matter, especially when you're really comfortable with a certain style, and DT couldn't have had two more stylistically different drummers. They are both amazing.

The other thing I feel is that they really got the perfect replacement, in my opinion. I didn't really know Mike Mangini before. I mean, I'm sure any number of drummers would've worked just fine. I liked Mangini's technical drumming, even if it was hard to hook onto sometimes. I just liked being wowed by it, and DT made some ridiculous passages during this era.

Mangini had a great personality, and whatever you may think of the live shows, he was a great showman, constantly interacting with his bandmates and the crowd.
If I had one complaint, I feel like he may have been too reserved in the whole process. He was too respectful, IMO, of his place in the band. There's been a lot of talk lately about what MP brings to the writing process. With Mangini, were they too technical in spots? Not sure, but even ranking them, I really love these 5 albums for the most part.

There's a lot of talk about James recently as well, and I always questioned him recording his vocals on his own with Richard Chyki.  I honestly don't think James was maximised on record during this era, save for The Astonishing. For TA, was JP more hands on? Was James more motivated?  I don't know. I feel like the vocals were generally an afterthought as opposed to part of the building process. Perhaps having MP in the room may help this dynamic out...I hope.

1. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
I suppose like a coaching change in sports, a lineup change to a band can bring a new and inspired energy. I thought DT knocked it out of the park on this album. Breaking All Illusion, I feel like is the signature track from this era. Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry are personal favorites of mine. Really grandiose. Honestly I love every song on this album save for BMUBMD. The two mellower songs, Fare From Heaven and Beneath The Surface were quite different for them, apologies to the lame Vacant and Out Of Reach.

2. A View From The Top Of The World
One thing that I thought DT needed was a technically dense showoffy kind of album. At least that's what I was hoping for, and I got it was A View. It's had trouble catching on with a large part of the fan base. perhaps, despite is melodic passages, there's a lack of melody as a whole on the album. I think The Alien and Sleeping Giant are two of this era's best tracks. There's not song I don't like, and frankly, I love pretty much all of this album. If Invisible Monster is the weakest track, then it's one of the best weakest tracks of any DT album, IMO.

3. The Astonishing
I think this is a tremendous piece of work. yeah, the story is a bit corny, but I'm not too fussed about it. There are so many beautiful passages on this album. As a whole, it can be daunting and sometimes monotonous to get through, but I made my own personal Astonishing Abridged, and I'd hold that up to any album in their catalog. If I had to pick a favorite song, I'd go with The Gift Of Music, which to me succinctly collects everything that's great about Dream Theater in four minutes. James is amazing on this, and like I alluded to in the intro to this post...I have to wonder what was different.

4. Distance Over Time
I love a lot of this album. My faves are Fall Into The Light and Barstool Warrior, along with At Wit's End. I think S2N is pretty awesome, and Pale Blue Dot certainly gave us a glimpse of what was coming on their next album. Paralyzed and Room 137 are pretty mediocre, but I do appreciate Room 137. Out Of Reach is brutally awful though. One oftheir worst IMO.

5. Dream Theater
This is pretty close with DoT. I think if they didn't ruin Illumination Theory with the ridiculously unneeded orchestra part in the middle, I might rank this album higher. I edited out that part, and the songs is much better. I'm not sure the "You'll never know" part was executed as well as it could've been though. I love The Enemy Inside, and I also think False Awakening Suite is sneaky awesome. Never gets mentioned with their instrumentals, but it's a tremendous piece of music. The Enigma Machine, on the other hand... is not.


The fact of the matter is that I think so highly of these albums, it's actually tempering my anticipation of DT16. I can see why they made the change, and I expect the new album to blow me away, but there's part of me that feels bad that the Mangini Era is over...musically.

I would order the albums a little differently, but I essentially agree with you wholeheartedly.

Quote from: TAC on June 27, 2024, 03:58:27 PM
So..I haven't responded in this thread yet, and I've been meaning to for months. This has actually been one of the most thought provoking threads on the DT side, and I have really enjoyed reading all of the opinions.
Honestly, I am still shocked at how many fans kind of turned off after MP left. Drummers do matter, especially when you're really comfortable with a certain style, and DT couldn't have had two more stylistically different drummers. They are both amazing.

The other thing I feel is that they really got the perfect replacement, in my opinion. I didn't really know Mike Mangini before. I mean, I'm sure any number of drummers would've worked just fine. I liked Mangini's technical drumming, even if it was hard to hook onto sometimes. I just liked being wowed by it, and DT made some ridiculous passages during this era.

Mangini had a great personality, and whatever you may think of the live shows, he was a great showman, constantly interacting with his bandmates and the crowd.
If I had one complaint, I feel like he may have been too reserved in the whole process. He was too respectful, IMO, of his place in the band. There's been a lot of talk lately about what MP brings to the writing process. With Mangini, were they too technical in spots? Not sure, but even ranking them, I really love these 5 albums for the most part.

There's a lot of talk about James recently as well, and I always questioned him recording his vocals on his own with Richard Chyki.  I honestly don't think James was maximised on record during this era, save for The Astonishing. For TA, was JP more hands on? Was James more motivated?  I don't know. I feel like the vocals were generally an afterthought as opposed to part of the building process. Perhaps having MP in the room may help this dynamic out...I hope.

1. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
I suppose like a coaching change in sports, a lineup change to a band can bring a new and inspired energy. I thought DT knocked it out of the park on this album. Breaking All Illusion, I feel like is the signature track from this era. Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry are personal favorites of mine. Really grandiose. Honestly I love every song on this album save for BMUBMD. The two mellower songs, Fare From Heaven and Beneath The Surface were quite different for them, apologies to the lame Vacant and Out Of Reach.

2. A View From The Top Of The World
One thing that I thought DT needed was a technically dense showoffy kind of album. At least that's what I was hoping for, and I got it was A View. It's had trouble catching on with a large part of the fan base. perhaps, despite is melodic passages, there's a lack of melody as a whole on the album. I think The Alien and Sleeping Giant are two of this era's best tracks. There's not song I don't like, and frankly, I love pretty much all of this album. If Invisible Monster is the weakest track, then it's one of the best weakest tracks of any DT album, IMO.

3. The Astonishing
I think this is a tremendous piece of work. yeah, the story is a bit corny, but I'm not too fussed about it. There are so many beautiful passages on this album. As a whole, it can be daunting and sometimes monotonous to get through, but I made my own personal Astonishing Abridged, and I'd hold that up to any album in their catalog. If I had to pick a favorite song, I'd go with The Gift Of Music, which to me succinctly collects everything that's great about Dream Theater in four minutes. James is amazing on this, and like I alluded to in the intro to this post...I have to wonder what was different.

4. Distance Over Time
I love a lot of this album. My faves are Fall Into The Light and Barstool Warrior, along with At Wit's End. I think S2N is pretty awesome, and Pale Blue Dot certainly gave us a glimpse of what was coming on their next album. Paralyzed and Room 137 are pretty mediocre, but I do appreciate Room 137. Out Of Reach is brutally awful though. One oftheir worst IMO.

5. Dream Theater
This is pretty close with DoT. I think if they didn't ruin Illumination Theory with the ridiculously unneeded orchestra part in the middle, I might rank this album higher. I edited out that part, and the songs is much better. I'm not sure the "You'll never know" part was executed as well as it could've been though. I love The Enemy Inside, and I also think False Awakening Suite is sneaky awesome. Never gets mentioned with their instrumentals, but it's a tremendous piece of music. The Enigma Machine, on the other hand... is not.


The fact of the matter is that I think so highly of these albums, it's actually tempering my anticipation of DT16. I can see why they made the change, and I expect the new album to blow me away, but there's part of me that feels bad that the Mangini Era is over...musically.

Great post. My preferences are a little different but enjoyed reading it.

I don't think I ever thought about the bolded statement until you mentioned it. And now that I think about it, Pale Blue Dot IS like a preview of View. It's almost like a bridge from one album to the next and would work perfectly on either record.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on June 28, 2024, 06:00:56 PM
Great post. My preferences are a little different but enjoyed reading it.

Thank you. And yeah, like I said at the beginning of my post, this has been one of my favorite threads on the DT Side in a long time. Even in posts that didn't align with my rankings, I found a lot of the explanations enlightening.

1. A Dramatic Turn of Events (6/10)
was a huge letdown at the time but if only I knew how bad things were gonna get, it's now pretty good. The single being that first song still rubs me the wrong way but you have fun moments that feel like the leftovers of whatever Portnoy could've made better. A few of these songs are '00s tier in quality though.
2. Dream Theater (4/10)
the thing about this album was that I couldn't find a single song on it I liked, for the first time. I remember daydreaming in 2006-2009 about a self-titled DT, and it finally came and let me down so much. Still don't get it but I did come around to "The Bigger Picture" only last year, so it isn't a total loss.
3. Distance Over Time (3/10)
the album where they, on one hand, seemed to have a little experimental fun, but they themselves don't even seem to like it that much seeing songs like S2N that have never been played live. My favorite song on the whole album is the balladesque closer "Out of Reach" which no one else seems to like.
4. A View From the Top of the World (2/10)
This one would be my least favorite of all-time if it wasn't for... anyway, all seven songs mean nothing to me, I tried to digest this and find some moment that melodically or memorably touches my heart, and it just feels like a going-through-the-motions kind of an album where there's no passion or reason for it to exist.
5. The Astonishing (1/10)
One of the actual worst albums I've ever heard in my nearly 30,000 records heard across life. The moment I realized that Petrucci needs to stop being validated as a fiction writer, he really cannot come up with anything meaningful. It was like some Game of Thrones meets 1984 with the most ass vocal deliveries you've ever heard.

So yeah what a sad era the Mangini years were. If the new album with MP isn't good, I resign to no longer blaming Mangini's passionless drum machine no-style sounding non-presence.

  

Quote from: DT05 on July 17, 2024, 09:09:56 PMSo yeah what a sad era the Mangini years were. If the new album with MP isn't good, I resign to no longer blaming Mangini's passionless drum machine no-style sounding non-presence.

Where's my "dislike" button?

Quote from: DT05 on July 17, 2024, 09:09:56 PM1. A Dramatic Turn of Events (6/10)
was a huge letdown at the time but if only I knew how bad things were gonna get, it's now pretty good. The single being that first song still rubs me the wrong way but you have fun moments that feel like the leftovers of whatever Portnoy could've made better. A few of these songs are '00s tier in quality though.
2. Dream Theater (4/10)
the thing about this album was that I couldn't find a single song on it I liked, for the first time. I remember daydreaming in 2006-2009 about a self-titled DT, and it finally came and let me down so much. Still don't get it but I did come around to "The Bigger Picture" only last year, so it isn't a total loss.
3. Distance Over Time (3/10)
the album where they, on one hand, seemed to have a little experimental fun, but they themselves don't even seem to like it that much seeing songs like S2N that have never been played live. My favorite song on the whole album is the balladesque closer "Out of Reach" which no one else seems to like.
4. A View From the Top of the World (2/10)
This one would be my least favorite of all-time if it wasn't for... anyway, all seven songs mean nothing to me, I tried to digest this and find some moment that melodically or memorably touches my heart, and it just feels like a going-through-the-motions kind of an album where there's no passion or reason for it to exist.
5. The Astonishing (1/10)
One of the actual worst albums I've ever heard in my nearly 30,000 records heard across life. The moment I realized that Petrucci needs to stop being validated as a fiction writer, he really cannot come up with anything meaningful. It was like some Game of Thrones meets 1984 with the most ass vocal deliveries you've ever heard.

So yeah what a sad era the Mangini years were. If the new album with MP isn't good, I resign to no longer blaming Mangini's passionless drum machine no-style sounding non-presence.

Wow, so tell us how you really feel

Interesting, I was reading your thoughts on the self-titled and thinking, how does an album where he likes no songs rank second, and then I read the rest

They were my favorite band for five years straight, you bet I've got strong feelings! They went from the band that "can't make a bad album in my ears" in 2007, to the band that made five bad albums in a row to my ears between 2011-2021. I even tried to make myself like the albums with repeat playthroughs (which is funnily enough how I got into DT as a teen before I understood the context of prog metal), but I'm fine just accepting that it's a different band with Mangini, and I don't much like that band! But I sure like the lineup we've got back.

Quote from: TAC on June 27, 2024, 03:58:27 PMThe fact of the matter is that I think so highly of these albums, it's actually tempering my anticipation of DT16. I can see why they made the change, and I expect the new album to blow me away, but there's part of me that feels bad that the Mangini Era is over...musically.

Thank you for the great post. Definitely one of the best overviews of the Mangini era I've read. I agree that the Mangini era is very solid overall. Definitely not a "Blaze Bayley era" kind of situation. My album rankings are the exact same as yours except I kind of put The Astonishing off to the side. When I'm in the mood for it, I think it's one of their best, but when I'm not in the mood for it, basically the complete opposite.

Quote from: DT05 on July 17, 2024, 09:09:56 PMIf the new album with MP isn't good, I resign to no longer blaming Mangini's passionless drum machine no-style sounding non-presence.

You shouldn't blame it now.  JP and JR were the main songwriters, just as they were when MP was the drummer.  If you didn't like the material, blame them, not Mangini.

Or just blame yourself.  The change in the band, from an end product, simply wasn't very drastic.  Sounds like your tastes may have changed somewhat.

Well, as for my opinion, I wasn't a great fan of anything post-Portnoy initially, but then I slowly started warming to them recently, so here's my ranking, with a couple of thoughts as well.
1: DT12
I really liked most of the songs in this album, even started warming up to 7-string guitar after hearing The Enemy Inside. The 12/8 riff at the beginning of IT has got to be my favourite guitar riff ever. However, there are some lows, such as Enigma Machine, which I was really looking forward to, having not had an instrumental in years, but I was soon put off it after listening. I admit the keyboard sound in the intro is cool though
2: D/T
This one was pretty good, I loved the melodic guitar solo in Fall Into The Light, and I liked At Wit's End for bringing back some progginess that I felt was missing since ADTOE. I had some gripes with the album in general having no long songs in it, as well as Room 137, which completely ruined the album in my opinion.
3: TA
I can't remember anything from this album other than that it was really good when I last listened to it.
4: AVFTTOTW
A strong effort in my opinion, only reason it's lower than D/T is that I had more issues with it than the latter. In TT, it was REALLY good up until just before the guitar solo, when it suddenly got really dark and gloomy, which ruined the song for me. In ATC, it was good until the keyboard solo, when JR used a sound practically the same as JP's guitar tone. I wish he'd go back to the tone he had in BC&SL. Along with various other songs I just didn't like, such as The Alien, Sleeping Giant, the title track and Invisible Monster.
5: ADTOE
My least favourite Dream Theater album. I'm not going to elaborate further on it, but I am going to say that BAI is one of my favourite tracks

For me this is a pretty easy choice.

1. D/T
2. ADTOE
3. DT12
4.TA




5. AVFTTOTW

Quote from: DT05 on July 18, 2024, 07:35:54 AMThey were my favorite band for five years straight, you bet I've got strong feelings! They went from the band that "can't make a bad album in my ears" in 2007, to the band that made five bad albums in a row to my ears between 2011-2021. I even tried to make myself like the albums with repeat playthroughs (which is funnily enough how I got into DT as a teen before I understood the context of prog metal), but I'm fine just accepting that it's a different band with Mangini, and I don't much like that band! But I sure like the lineup we've got back.

The fact that you cite 2007 as a high point for the band musically . . . is interesting.

Quote from: Dream Team on July 18, 2024, 04:28:19 PMThe fact that you cite 2007 as a high point for the band musically . . . is interesting.

I would tend to agree. 

Quote from: TheOutlawXanadu on July 18, 2024, 09:28:47 AMThank you for the great post. Definitely one of the best overviews of the Mangini era I've read. I agree that the Mangini era is very solid overall. Definitely not a "Blaze Bayley era" kind of situation. My album rankings are the exact same as yours except I kind of put The Astonishing off to the side. When I'm in the mood for it, I think it's one of their best, but when I'm not in the mood for it, basically the complete opposite.

Thanks TOX!

To the bolded, that's why an abridged version is the way to go.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on July 18, 2024, 09:42:22 AMYou shouldn't blame it now.  JP and JR were the main songwriters, just as they were when MP was the drummer.  If you didn't like the material, blame them, not Mangini.

Or just blame yourself.  The change in the band, from an end product, simply wasn't very drastic.  Sounds like your tastes may have changed somewhat.

Nah that's alright, I'm able to understand my position even if you're not able to!

Quote from: DT05 on July 18, 2024, 07:49:55 PMNah that's alright, I'm able to understand my position even if you're not able to!

WOW! 20 posts in and your posting this? Good luck..........

Quote from: hunnus2000 on July 19, 2024, 02:23:00 AMWOW! 20 posts in and your posting this? Good luck..........

Quote from: DT05 on July 18, 2024, 07:49:55 PMNah that's alright, I'm able to understand my position even if you're not able to!

No reason to be combative, friend. Hef is all of our father, he's great, we love him.

Quote from: DT05 on July 18, 2024, 07:49:55 PMNah that's alright, I'm able to understand my position even if you're not able to!

I'm pretty smart.  Why don't you explain it to me?