Guys, the band has done basically the same thing since Octavarium, singling out MP is a bit "cringy" as the youngsters say. It's not like Petrucci is unrecognizable and full of new stuff in this song either. But it's still good. Keep this up and we'll have Never Enough pt 2 and I don't want that to take a spot on an album instead of a real song 

I agree with many of you that it is not ground breaking. However, there is something that I liked more about it than much of DT's recent work. Hard to exactly describe why though.

Thought much of the solo work was great. More composed and melodic than some solos that can feel aimless.

Overall I enjoyed it.

Quote from: The Letter M on October 10, 2024, 09:33:42 AMWhich is fine by me, personally. Anyone thinking Mike would suddenly bust out new chops after playing the way he has been for decades would be fooling themselves. He sounds like MP has always sounded, especially with DT, and if you didn't like it before, you wouldn't like it now.

-Marc.

Completely agree though my personal view is that I liked it back then and have just gotten tired of it over the years. Especially coming out of View I think the drums here are predictable - as I did predict a few days ago - and a bit underwhelming. Again not a bad song or formula, just don't love it any longer as I've progressed in my musical journey.

Am I committing sacrilege if I admit I think I prefer the radio edit?

You lose the unison section, but the whole song feels way more cohesive, and has a much better drive to it...

I think this is pretty good. Definitely exceeds my expectations.  If this is the opening song at the O2 show I think it will be really exciting.

I get the discussion on the various points of view regarding drummers, but I have to be honest: I'm not listening to this thinking "oooh, that was done at 8:27 seconds of track 5 on their fourth album..."  I'm lost in the music.  It FELT right, at least to me.

There's not one second of that song that I thought "wow, I wish that was more precise" or "I wish Mangini was here to lay down 8,649 bass drum hits in measure five!". 

Not discrediting anyone's opinion, but it's all in what the artist wants to do. It's pretty clear, and has been for decades, that Mike's not interested in pure innovation for innovation's sake, nor is he interested in perfection for perfection's sake (however that's defined in art anyway). I do know this: I frequently buy records SOLELY because Mike Portnoy drummed on them, and I've never once ever bought a record SOLELY because Mike Mangini drummed on it, so he's got to be doing something right by some people.  I can't hold Portnoy to a criteria that HE HIMSELF isn't including in his artistic choices.  That's like criticizing Yngwie Malmsteen or Eddie Van Halen for not playing enough "blues".  That's not their gig. 

I gave the new track four listens on my lunch walk. It's a good track, but it's my least favorite style of DT. It feels very produced and electronic-y to me. Maybe it's just my shitty $30 earbuds, but the vocals and backing instruments sound synthetic or something at times. I'd give it a 6 or 6.5 out of 10. If you told me this was an unreleased track from AVFTOTW, I'd have believed you.

Might be a bit harsh, but I really hope this isn't the tour opener.   

Quote from: Stadler on October 10, 2024, 09:47:00 AMI get the discussion on the various points of view regarding drummers, but I have to be honest: I'm not listening to this thinking "oooh, that was done at 8:27 seconds of track 5 on their fourth album..."  I'm lost in the music.  It FELT right, at least to me.

There's not one second of that song that I thought "wow, I wish that was more precise" or "I wish Mangini was here to lay down 8,649 bass drum hits in measure five!". 

Not discrediting anyone's opinion, but it's all in what the artist wants to do. It's pretty clear, and has been for decades, that Mike's not interested in pure innovation for innovation's sake, nor is he interested in perfection for perfection's sake (however that's defined in art anyway). I do know this: I frequently buy records SOLELY because Mike Portnoy drummed on them, and I've never once ever bought a record SOLELY because Mike Mangini drummed on it, so he's got to be doing something right by some people.  I can't hold Portnoy to a criteria that HE HIMSELF isn't including in his artistic choices.  That's like criticizing Yngwie Malmsteen or Eddie Van Halen for not playing enough "blues".  That's not their gig.

Same. I don't really understand this whole "analyze the song down to the very second" to find things to nitpick. I just listen to the song.

Some people are happy to experience the whole, others to analyse in minute detail. Neither approach is wrong. We each engage with art in our own way.

Quote from: EvantheMotel6Owmer on October 10, 2024, 09:51:05 AMSame. I don't really understand this whole "analyze the song down to the very second" to find things to nitpick. I just listen to the song.

It's not that we're picking it over with a fine tooth comb in hopes of finding things to pick apart. It's that we're listening to it in real time and also analyzing it as we hear it. There's room for both enjoyment without using your brain and analyzing.

Quote from: Kocak on October 10, 2024, 09:18:17 AMIf I were to imagine a sequel track to Invisible Monster, this'd be it.


The arrangement sounds a bit too disconnected for me. I know that DT tracks are usually a mix and match of different sections, but they usually do the transitions better than this.

This is how I feel, and why I made the comment that it feels like something off of AVFTTOTW mixed with 2000's DT. I like the track though.

I'll admit though that at times, it felt like the song was calling for some MM flair in there.

Quote from: XJDenton on October 10, 2024, 09:53:38 AMSome people are happy to experience the whole, others to analyse in minute detail. Neither approach is wrong. We each engage with art in our own way.

exactly. (and btw, as a musician, it's hard for me to not analyse everything, simply because if I wanted to play any piece in question well, I'd best get to analysing it. See where I'm going with this?)

Quote from: Zook on October 10, 2024, 09:21:21 AMThere's like ten different DT songs inside this one. Not bad, but, to speak in toy collecting terms, there's been a lot of reuse.

Does Mike know any other fills?

THANK YOU.  someone said it he's been using the same ones for a decade now.

i could call what fill went where.

Gave it a first spin and to be short:
-bc&sl b track, I'm disappointed of that feeling of already heard.
-the two last minutes are great.

I'll see if my opinion change and how it sits in the album, for a band that wrote take the time, octavarium, the alien... It can be waaaay more proggy

Quote from: gzarruk on October 10, 2024, 09:37:03 AMThis was my first thought, as well as:

Through the many months of silence we had from the band, there was speculation of MP stepping up and making the effort to prove his naysayers wrong, but nope, we got the same old MP doing the same old stuff he likes to play, as if he never left (or practiced since). Most fans will love this and more power to them, but I heard this and I felt the drumming was in slow motion or buffering, like it didn't catch up with the rest of the band. I really missed the other Mike here, but I'm just one of the few.

Still, cool song and I'm currently on my third listen. New DT albums will always be great for me, so I'm excited anyway.

It's just MP's style, yes he has his Go to fills. Hate to break it to you so does MM. example.. that super fast flourish at the beginning of illumination theory.. he does that little fill MANY times throughout his albums with DT.. is that bad?? No, I think it's awesome. MP will have his tricks and MM will have his. Some will like one more than the other. It's all subjective!

I for one welcome MP back because I love his playing.

It's kind of funny that radio edit is still 6 min. LoL 

Quote from: Progmaniac1988 on October 10, 2024, 10:05:48 AMIt's just MP's style, yes he has his Go to fills. Hate to break it to you so does MM. example.. that super fast flourish at the beginning of illumination theory.. he does that little fill MANY times throughout his albums with DT.. is that bad?? No, I think it's awesome. MP will have his tricks and MM will have his. Some will like one more than the other. It's all subjective!

Something that bothered me with MM's playing was the way he ended a lot of songs by playing the same 4 bass drum hits, don't know how to explain it better, but once you notice it, it shows up everywhere, and it got tiring and predictable after a while. There's room for improvement in both camps

Quote from: Progmaniac1988 on October 10, 2024, 10:05:48 AMIt's just MP's style, yes he has his Go to fills. Hate to break it to you so does MM. example.. that super fast flourish at the beginning of illumination theory.. he does that little fill MANY times throughout his albums with DT.. is that bad?? No, I think it's awesome. MP will have his tricks and MM will have his. Some will like one more than the other. It's all subjective!

I for one welcome MP back because I love his playing.

Every musician has tendencies and ideas they like to recook. Though I actually have to go back and listen to the part you reference. Regardless that's not what we're talking about with regard to MP...we are talking about literally almost exactly the same lines and licks from a relatively small well being drawn on over and over again over the course of decades.

Double post

More thoughts. I dig Jordan's nod to the 12 step suite. Also chorus is sufficiently stuck in my head. This is going to be great in a set.

Cool song, nothing groundbreaking, about what I expected. Better than View. MP's character is there, which was a hope.

Quote from: Skeever on October 10, 2024, 07:09:33 AM-The line "Nocturnal Trial By Fire" sticks out as Taylor Swift levels of amateurish phrasing, that's it really

Yeah it stood out to me as well. Maybe not as bad as "we are never ever ever getting back together" but yeah.

Quote from: BeatriceNB on October 10, 2024, 07:37:52 AMBesides some... questionable lyric decisions in her last album, Taylor Swift is an amazing lyricist, singer and melody maker; very diverse music catalogue too.

As for DT, I couldn't even finish the song. I wanted to see some opinions here, wasn't even gonna comment, but I HAD to defend my favourite singer.

Welcome to the Forums!

as far as the single, I think it was easily better than pretty much every song during the Mike Mango era (except of course our favorite interlude track, The Hovering Sojourn)

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 10, 2024, 10:11:56 AMEvery musician has tendencies and ideas they like to recook. Though I actually have to go back and listen to the part you reference. Regardless that's not what we're talking about with regard to MP...we are talking about literally almost exactly the same lines and licks from a relatively small well being drawn on over and over again over the course of decades.

I get that, I of course pick up on his reused bag of tricks. It just never really bothered me. I'm not gunna point anything out abt MM because I'm not trying to seem like I'm attacking his playing, because I'm not. My point is both drummers have their go to signature go to's. MP it's definitely more noticeable, BUT there's a lot I've missed from MP. I looove his cymbal work. He has a certain flavor to it. MP is back, and yeah certain things we can kind of expect. I get if that's not some fans thing, but many of us I'm sure will love it.

Sorry if I seem a bit agitated. I've seen a comment that said "have fun enjoying mediocrity" or something along those lines, and that's a bullshit insulting comment. I hate to break it to you, just because some people think they are so much more intelligent then others don't make it true or right. Everyone has their right to like whatever drummer they want. (Thats not directed at you barstoolwarrior)

I enjoyed the song on first listen. I'll probably not play it again until the album is out, so it remains fresh.

Some things I've definitely heard before, but also some things I wasn't expecting. I liked the dark/tense vibe - there was a sort of 'uneasy' feeling at times, which all matches well with the theme of the song I think. I wouldn't want the whole album to feel like that, so I'm a bit wary with the whole concept of the album. The band usually manages to mix things up enough though.

Quote from: Progmaniac1988 on October 10, 2024, 10:33:26 AMI get that, I of course pick up on his reused bag of tricks. It just never really bothered me. I'm not gunna point anything out abt MM because I'm not trying to seem like I'm attacking his playing, because I'm not. My point is both drummers have their go to signature go to's. MP it's definitely more noticeable, BUT there's a lot I've missed from MP. I looove his cymbal work. He has a certain flavor to it. MP is back, and yeah certain things we can kind of expect. I get if that's not some fans thing, but many of us I'm sure will love it.

Sorry if I seem a bit agitated. I've seen a comment that said "have fun enjoying mediocrity" or something along those lines, and that's a bullshit insulting comment. I hate to break it to you, just because some people think they are so much more intelligent then others don't make it true or right. Everyone has their right to like whatever drummer they want. (Thats not directed at you barstoolwarrior)

I'd never say otherwise. (as I've mentioned here and there.)

New DT Day!  New song is fun, definitely feel vibes from other songs and a familiarity.  My only problem is that since I've listened to it a few times, I sit here an hour later and cannot really put my finger on anything I'd like to revisit.  I will give it another spin or two later and hopefully it clicks.

I will say the second verse stuck out as 'Alien' like in that what the band is doing during the second verse is just 'off' from what James is singing.  That band does him ZERO favors sometimes 

edited to add - I'm also not hearing the criticisms about the 'chugga' from JP - and I was highly critical of the overuse on AVFTTOTW.  Fingers crossed that it's not prevalent on the rest of the album.

Quote from: Max Kuehnau on October 10, 2024, 10:37:02 AMI'd never say otherwise. (as I've mentioned here and there.)

Yes you have Max, but for example if someone is saying something condescending and then following up with "but I respect your opinion" that don't make the comment not condescending lol

It's all good man, I typically let shit go over my head, but some things just get under my skin

Quote from: Zantera on October 10, 2024, 10:15:35 AMYeah it stood out to me as well. Maybe not as bad as "we are never ever ever getting back together" but yeah.

C'mon, that one is a banger, very catchy melody. It's not one of my favourite songs from Red, but it's far from the worst, considering Stay Stay Stay exists (which they had the guts to write in C major  )

Quote from: TheHoveringSojourn808 on October 10, 2024, 10:16:28 AMWelcome to the Forums!

as far as the single, I think it was easily better than pretty much every song during the Mike Mango era (except of course our favorite interlude track, The Hovering Sojourn)

My account is several years old, but I just disappeared.
Also, the MM era has several great songs, but I guess that was a joke.

Quote from: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on October 10, 2024, 09:07:20 AMRegarding ANTR - Do we have to call things trash? Or can we just acknowledge that it's not the side of DT we prefer. Shouldn't be hard to acknowledge subjectivity in a music discussion

I mean, I said "for me".  I also said to Luke that I was glad that he liked it.  Both of which, to me, are acknowledging subjectivity.

But maybe you're right, and I was too harsh.  After all, I really enjoy the "Beautiful Agony" section.  Probably my favorite stretch of music on that whole album.

But the rest is not for me, in any way, shape, or form.  I actually typed out why, and decided that was not helpful, so I deleted it.

An okay song. The structure is cool, less chugging and solos trading is a positive. Overall though, it sounds like "A View..." with worse, predictable, copy-paste drumming. Sorry, I was a huge fan of MM in DT and the idea of MP coming back never excited me.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 10, 2024, 11:06:43 AMI mean, I said "for me".  I also said to Luke that I was glad that he liked it.  Both of which, to me, are acknowledging subjectivity.

But maybe you're right, and I was too harsh.  After all, I really enjoy the "Beautiful Agony" section.  Probably my favorite stretch of music on that whole album.

But the rest is not for me, in any way, shape, or form.  I actually typed out why, and decided that was not helpful, so I deleted it.

You did say "for me", so you're right, you did acknowledge subjectivity. I actually feel pretty much the same as you about the song - the Beautiful Agony section is really the most redeeming part - plus the breakdown where they half time on that huge riff always gets me going.

It's probably unfair of me to call it too harsh when I was complaining about "sloppiness" not long ago. I'm at work so I haven't followed every comment - I'm probably missing context and judging comments unfairly in isolation as a result. Don't mind me - I also like your approach to just listening and enjoying the single for now and analyzing later.

Regarding the single, I listened to it again with the video this time and it grew on me a bit. I actually think that "sloppiness" I was complaining about behind the kit lends itself to high energy. It adds an element of chaos where previously everything was perfect to the microsecond. Even though DT has been pushing themsleves musically, it never really felt "on the edge" because MM is just so clean and precise

I'm having a ton of fun with the song and the rollout either way 

I do agree with you earlier that the singles are usually the most typical DT metal tracks. I'm sure there will be tons of variety and dreaminess throughout.

Quote from: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on October 10, 2024, 11:17:57 AMYou did say "for me", so you're right, you did acknowledge subjectivity. I actually feel pretty much the same as you about the song - the Beautiful Agony section is really the most redeeming part - plus the breakdown where they half time on that huge riff always gets me going.

It's probably unfair of me to call it too harsh when I was complaining about "sloppiness" not long ago. I'm at work so I haven't followed every comment - I'm probably missing context and judging comments unfairly in isolation as a result. Don't mind me - I also like your approach to just listening and enjoying the single for now and analyzing later.

Regarding the single, I listened to it again with the video this time and it grew on me a bit. I actually think that "sloppiness" I was complaining about behind the kit lends itself to high energy. It adds an element of chaos where previously everything was perfect to the microsecond. Even though DT has been pushing themsleves musically, it never really felt "on the edge" because MM is just so clean and precise

I'm having a ton of fun with the song and the rollout either way 

I do agree with you earlier that the singles are usually the most typical DT metal tracks. I'm sure there will be tons of variety and dreaminess throughout.

All good, brother.

I'm not hearing A Nightmare To Remember in this other than a general spooky / gothic atmosphere. I wish it sounded more like ANTR honestly. Instead it comes across to me like a mix between The Alien and Invisible Monster, the latter of which is easily my least favorite song from that album. Kinda disappointed honestly, I was hoping the band would be sounding more energized and enthusiastic with Portnoy's return and instead this just sounds like everyone's kinda out of ideas. Hoping the rest of the album's better.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on October 10, 2024, 11:19:57 AMI'm not hearing A Nightmare To Remember in this other than a general spooky / gothic atmosphere.

Me neither, actually.

Quote from: Buddyhunter1 on October 10, 2024, 11:19:57 AMI wish it sounded more like ANTR honestly

...and you lost me

LOL