Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 11, 2024, 07:43:53 AMIt's exactly what I assumed it would be — more of the same. I've never been a fan of what I would call their dark "gothic" sound (A Nightmare to Remember, Invisible Monster, etc), and prefer their more natural, organic and melancholic dark sound, like Awake. This just feels really forced and put on, like they're trying to be something they're not. Like they're trying to appeal to teenagers that shop at Hot Topic. It feels like a leftover track from the Black Clouds sessions, and maybe a little bit of Systematic Chaos.

Have you met a teenager at any point within the last 15 years? Or been in a Hot Topic for that matter?    If you want to call it corny and self-indulgent, go ahead, but we're all Dream Theater fans so that comes with the territory.

I had some similar feelings at first - it's just DT doing what DT does in a manner that isn't particularly "fresh" per se. But after a few listens, I can't stop. I'm not trying to say you have to like it, or that "you just need to listen more man", but when I threw it on again last night with a drank in hand and a couple more in the belly - I simply cannot keep myself from having as much fun as these dudes probably were in the studio laying down these fatass riffs. 

This isn't something they're not. This is pretty much what they've been for 18-22 years depending on how you trace it back. This is them doing exactly what they do. I am a well conditioned dog - I hear the bell, I salivate

I do agree that I want more "curated" soundscapes throughout the album - I expect there will be. It's probably gonna get atmospheric and moody up in that tracklist.

Quote from: Sir Walrus Cauliflower on October 11, 2024, 08:26:55 AMHave you met a teenager at any point within the last 15 years? Or been in a Hot Topic for that matter?    If you want to call it corny and self-indulgent, go ahead, but we're all Dream Theater fans so that comes with the territory.

I had some similar feelings at first - it's just DT doing what DT does in a manner that isn't particularly "fresh" per se. But after a few listens, I can't stop. I'm not trying to say you have to like it, or that "you just need to listen more man", but when I threw it on again last night with a drank in hand and a couple more in the belly - I simply cannot keep myself from having as much fun as these dudes probably were in the studio laying down these fatass riffs. 

This isn't something they're not. This is pretty much what they've been for 18-22 years depending on how you trace it back. This is them doing exactly what they do. I am a well conditioned dog - I hear the bell, I salivate

I do agree that I want more "curated" soundscapes throughout the album - I expect there will be. It's probably gonna get atmospheric and moody up in that tracklist.

Ehhh...to each their own. To me this sound doesn't sound very mature, the whole dark gothic thing, it just makes me think of teenagers. Seen a lot of teenagers over the years being into gothic metal.

Gothic metal is not what I think of, when I think of DT. This is something that started with Black Clouds, or perhaps a little bit on SC. Even way back then, I remember thinking...this is them trying to fit in with the newer, younger bands.

When I think of DT, I think of Images thru SDOIT. That's kind of their chameleon of soundscapes. Not a fan of the gothic sound. It's too corny, to be sure.

Putting the astonishing aside I actually really appreciated the lyrical themes of the Mangini era albums. It didn't have the dark gothic ring to it described above. They were about more mature topics in my humble view.

Well I for one am good with waiting for the album to cast judgment.....

And will probably love it!

I listened to it twice. I didn't dislike it, but I wouldn't buy it either.

I hope the rest of the album peaks my interest more.

Been playing it a few times more.  and my opinion still stands not bad at all i'm not bashing but at the same time.  it's EXACTLY the song i heard in my head when i heard MP was back.  Like to beat for beat.  section for section it is the type of song my head went to too.

Some Positives.  James sounds great.......uh yea James sounds great, lol

Again this is not a bash.  Just i loved the mangini era.  some of my fav DT albums were in that era.  and this just feels like they hit the rewind button.

if anyone's wondering fan since 97 so i'm not new.

Also Portnoy's fills.  nothing wrong with them.  i just spent my firstlisten yesterday going.  this fill go here......that one there......BEFORE they happened, lol

so.......6/10 for me.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 11, 2024, 09:02:31 AMPutting the astonishing aside I actually really appreciated the lyrical themes of the Mangini era albums. It didn't have the dark gothic ring to it described above. They were about more mature topics in my humble view.

Agreed. The Astonishing was lyrically way too corny, and musically, it sounded like a Disney soundtrack to me, with some overdriven guitar occasionally thrown in.

ADTOE was particularly strong in the lyrical department, as well as the self-titled album, and Distance Over Time. Musically, the only tunes I liked off DT12 were The Looking Glass and Surrender to Reason.

As far as Distance Over Time, I liked Fall Into The Light, Barstool Warrior, Room 137, and S2N. These were all tracks I thought were solid, fairly enjoyable, but nothing particularly new or groundbreaking.

Listening again and paying a little more attention to the lyrics. Line ending in "bottomless well," I wonder what could rhyme with well? I bet you $100 it will be "hell"!

I think DT have just sorely lacked in the songwriting department since FII. It's just not their strong suit I guess. I can enjoy the instrumental bits well enough, but I just can't really get on board with the lyrics, the subject matter, or the vocal melodies. Like, they feel totally perfunctory. "We have a singer and we have to have some words and we have to be a metal band so we'll sing about spiders and nightmares and dark stuff." And then the chorus itself just sounds like a slight alteration on prior choruses they've used many times since about TOT.

The instrumental part is genuinely pretty cool. I'm enjoying that.

Quote from: The Letter M on October 11, 2024, 06:37:06 AMThe key point with AI "art" is that it is being artificially generated by trained algorithms, and not created by real people who, yes, are often influenced and inspired by the artists who've come before them. New art is always going to be influenced by past art, but a real artist will take years or decades honing their craft and creating their own styles. Also, most artists aren't trained on a database of millions of artworks stolen from across the internet/world to create a singular image based on a given prompt. When someone commissions a real artist, they'll go to them because of their style, and expect a piece in that style. Using a prompt-generated image takes away opportunities from those artists to get paid for their work, which is one of the biggest fears of this fad of using generated artwork. Lots of companies big and small are resorting to using it because they don't want to pay an actual artist and commission artwork for something. I recently saw a local beer/food festival post their event on Facebook with their banner photo was some disgusting AI artwork that even had misspelled words on it.

-Marc.

I have no intention of derailing here, but your response to Stadler inspired a related thought...

Tears for Fears has a live album coming out soon, and they went the AI route (via an artist) for the cover. Surprisingly, they touted this fact in the press, much to the chagrin of their fans (me included).

Now, I suspect that Roland and Curt, being the forward-thinking guys they are, had the best of intentions here, and obviously were disheartened by the response.

My dislike of the 'AI art for album cover' issue is super complicated, and I fully recognize that I am personally making it a much bigger deal (I will NOT be buying the new DT album in physical format) bc it's an issue that strikes a chord/nerve with me.

But, if I may, let's pull back the lens here and look at this from a different angle.

I find myself wondering, if the major artists of our time (i.e., artists with the means to find/employ other artists), artists like Tears for Fears and Dream Theater, have no qualms with the socio-economic/environmental/ethical implications of using AI art, then who will?

I suppose, at this point, nobody.

Sucks to be a freelance writer/artist/(and soon)musician in not so distant future.

That all said, I do believe there will always exists a subset of individuals who will place a premium on the 'real thing.'

It might just be people like me and Pebsie buying each other's records of bandcamp, but our little pond will still exist.

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled programming!

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 11, 2024, 08:36:13 AMEhhh...to each their own. To me this sound doesn't sound very mature, the whole dark gothic thing, it just makes me think of teenagers. Seen a lot of teenagers over the years being into gothic metal.

Gothic metal is not what I think of, when I think of DT. This is something that started with Black Clouds, or perhaps a little bit on SC. Even way back then, I remember thinking...this is them trying to fit in with the newer, younger bands.

When I think of DT, I think of Images thru SDOIT. That's kind of their chameleon of soundscapes. Not a fan of the gothic sound. It's too corny, to be sure.

I see your Hot Topic teenager descriptions, and it just doesn't align with anything I hear from Dream Theater.

That description sounds more like My Chemical Romance which couldn't be further away from Dream Theater.

A few listens in, I guess you can count me in the "song is ok/good but I'm a bit underwhelmed" camp. Not even sure how to define underwhelmed. I guess it's not so much like I was expecting something 100% fresh and new (what would that even mean at this point anyway?), but I had this feeling they'd release something a little more energized as a first single with MP back (although it certainly warms the heart to hear his playing on a new DT song - and this coming from someone who really liked MM too). Not in the sense of super-technical, or "metal", or heavy. More like , I don't know, some palpable sense of enthusiasm. I mean, The Alien is not a song I necessarily love, and in many ways (like a lot of A View...) you could say it was pretty canonical DT... but it was a right-out-of-the-gate boom! We are having fun. Here it's like the guys are only, um, mildly enthusiastic? 

Anyhoo...some tasty stuff in the song, for sure. I agree with many here that the main riff is quite good (and I totally get Luke's reference to Metallica's That Was Just Your Life), and I love the different groove after the first chorus going into the second verse. It's great how it throws you off just a bit.

The chorus melody is...fine? It starts out nice but also about to develop into something very familiar...then it's almost like they needed to do something different with it so it didn't sound that familiar, and it doesn't resolve quite as nicely.

Overall, for now, not the best but certainly not the worst first single DT put out Still obviously very excited about the album.

Quote from: WilliamMunny on October 11, 2024, 10:19:28 AMI have no intention of derailing here, but your response to Stadler inspired a related thought...

Tears for Fears has a live album coming out soon, and they went the AI route (via an artist) for the cover. Surprisingly, they touted this fact in the press, much to the chagrin of their fans (me included).

Now, I suspect that Roland and Curt, being the forward-thinking guys they are, had the best of intentions here, and obviously were disheartened by the response.

My dislike of the 'AI art for album cover' issue is super complicated, and I fully recognize that I am personally making it a much bigger deal (I will NOT be buying the new DT album in physical format) bc it's an issue that strikes a chord/nerve with me.

But, if I may, let's pull back the lens here and look at this from a different angle.

I find myself wondering, if the major artists of our time (i.e., artists with the means to find/employ other artists), artists like Tears for Fears and Dream Theater, have no qualms with the socio-economic/environmental/ethical implications of using AI art, then who will?

I suppose, at this point, nobody.

Sucks to be a freelance writer/artist/(and soon)musician in not so distant future.

That all said, I do believe there will always exists a subset of individuals who will place a premium on the 'real thing.'

It might just be people like me and Pebsie buying each other's records of bandcamp, but our little pond will still exist.

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled programming!

Good points, but without being too blunt, to use Dream Theater and Tears For Fears as the paradigm of all "artists of our time" I think may be a little misleading.   I can't speak for TfF, but does DT have an unlimited artwork budget?  I think you still have people like Fish, who are working one-on-one with artists that create on a table top.  I know my wife's cousin is a professional artist that does a lot of fantasy sci-fi stuff and he works regularly (he just painted a guitar for Ace Frehley and got to present it to him on one of the recent rock cruises, so there's that!).

I think everything has to have it's time, and those things that last the test of time are the way they ought to be.  I know the analogy has been used before, but I can think of the 80s and the electronic music push and while some of that technology has lasted, others haven't. And rightfully so.  I think it's less about AI than how it's used and how it progresses. 

Quote from: Stadler on October 11, 2024, 11:21:02 AMGood points, but without being too blunt, to use Dream Theater and Tears For Fears as the paradigm of all "artists of our time" I think may be a little misleading.   I can't speak for TfF, but does DT have an unlimited artwork budget?  I think you still have people like Fish, who are working one-on-one with artists that create on a table top.  I know my wife's cousin is a professional artist that does a lot of fantasy sci-fi stuff and he works regularly (he just painted a guitar for Ace Frehley and got to present it to him on one of the recent rock cruises, so there's that!).

I think everything has to have it's time, and those things that last the test of time are the way they ought to be.  I know the analogy has been used before, but I can think of the 80s and the electronic music push and while some of that technology has lasted, others haven't. And rightfully so.  I think it's less about AI than how it's used and how it progresses. 

If this cover was done by a relatively unknown or new artist, I feel like there'd be slightly less backlash, but given how long Syme has been in the industry of providing cover art for bands, it's just surprising and disappointing that he'd resort to it, at least to many certain fans.

-Marc.

Fair, Marc, fair.

Quote from: nick_z on October 11, 2024, 10:39:11 AMAnyhoo...some tasty stuff in the song, for sure. I agree with many here that the main riff is quite good (and I totally get Luke's reference to Metallica's That Was Just Your Life), and I love the different groove after the first chorus going into the second verse. It's great how it throws you off just a bit.

It functions like a good hook. I put Night Terror in the playlist for my run this morning and that's the part of the song that's most compelling, I think.

I haven't been this excited over a DT song in years.  Many unexpected things in it, awesome solos.

MASTER PIECE

Quote from: jammindude on October 11, 2024, 10:31:42 AMI see your Hot Topic teenager descriptions, and it just doesn't align with anything I hear from Dream Theater.

That description sounds more like My Chemical Romance which couldn't be further away from Dream Theater.

...yeah if you don't like dark vibes yer really gonna hate: pull me under, panic attack, disappear, SC, 12 step suite, the mirror, a mind beside itself, change of seasons, endless sacrifice, the enemy inside, paralyzed, untethered angel, in the name of god, ANTR, scarred yes i am just naming random songs and albums BECAUSE DT IS like generally dark, maaaan.

The band posted on X that the song has over a million streams already.

Sounds like it's going really well for 24 hours in

The video was an enjoyable watch!

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 11, 2024, 02:26:44 PMThe band posted on X that the song has over a million streams already.

Sounds like it's going really well for 24 hours in

Amazing!!

Listening a lot to both versions... and I think the radio edit is perfectly arranged, but I still prefer listen to the album version, because of its aditional very cool instrumental passages. I think it's the best radio edit I'vey heard from them, easily. It's so good and, since the band made it avaible at same time on Spotify, I'm wondering if they were somewhat divided which version was better.

Quote from: jammindude on October 11, 2024, 10:31:42 AMI see your Hot Topic teenager descriptions, and it just doesn't align with anything I hear from Dream Theater.

That description sounds more like My Chemical Romance which couldn't be further away from Dream Theater.

Well, you say that, but on the grand scheme of things The Black Parade, as a concept album, has more in common with Dream Theater than you'd think. I would absolutely talk about My Chemical Romance and Dream Theater, as two of my all time favourite bands, in the same breath.

Quote from: Zydar on October 11, 2024, 05:26:08 AMI bet you've already tabbed out the guitar parts already, or the main riff at least.

Haha, I figured out the intro and had a bit of a play around with the riff but that was about it.

Quote from: DT89 on October 11, 2024, 05:33:47 AMI did: https://youtu.be/XepA7m_5a7g?si=uKIk1DcZahhTObDv

Yeah, but you're not human. 

Thanks, glad I didn't spend too long trying to figure it out myself! 

Subscribed!

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 11, 2024, 02:26:44 PMThe band posted on X that the song has over a million streams already.

Sounds like it's going really well for 24 hours in

Excellent.  If nothing else, you gotta love them having the balls to make the first video for a song that is nearly 10 minutes.  (not that length dictates quality, but most go for shorter songs for singles)

I can't search this thread, but I did skim the ten pages. Am I really the only one that picked up on Witch Hunt during the intro? Seemed kind of obvious to me, and it's exactly the sort of thing you'd expect with MP, JM, and JP.

On fisrt listen I wasn't sure, DT by number, then after a few more I really dig it.

It is like if you removed Neil from Rush for years and put him back there's a kind of comfort in it.

It reminds me of the SC era, and my daughter likes it also this must be a good sign 

Quote from: El Barto on October 11, 2024, 05:53:02 PMI can't search this thread, but I did skim the ten pages. Am I really the only one that picked up on Witch Hunt during the intro? Seemed kind of obvious to me, and it's exactly the sort of thing you'd expect with MP, JM, and JP.

yeah, I see that. I was thinking Hell's Kitchen though.

Quote from: twosuitsluke on October 11, 2024, 04:15:36 PMWell, you say that, but on the grand scheme of things The Black Parade, as a concept album, has more in common with Dream Theater than you'd think. I would absolutely talk about My Chemical Romance and Dream Theater, as two of my all time favourite bands, in the same breath.

It was not my intention to make it sound as if I didn't love MCR. I absolutely love the black parade and I think it's a brilliant album. But I still say that musically they couldn't be more far apart. When i'm jamming out to MCR, it reminds me of a black humor, goth version of Cheap Trick.

I like it a lot. Of all of the advance singles I recall hearing, this and "On the Backs of Angels" are probably my favorite. Now I would put "As I Am" above both, but thinking of at the time, it took a while for it to grow on me.

Had a more visceral interaction with the single whilst at the gym this evening. I was doing my leg presses and hamstring curls and felt the song gave me a bit of a boost.

Still think the song is mid but I'm going to keep spinning it.

Excellent song imo! High energy, catchy and great sound. I love the modulation/key change in the chorus near the end, which really elevates the song. The instrumental sections are interesting and some new guitar tones. Portnoy sounds amazing of course!
Looks like JP has a new custom Majesty guitar. Pretty darn cool! 

Quote from: El Barto on October 11, 2024, 05:53:02 PMI can't search this thread, but I did skim the ten pages. Am I really the only one that picked up on Witch Hunt during the intro? Seemed kind of obvious to me, and it's exactly the sort of thing you'd expect with MP, JM, and JP.

Oh, that's a great call. Also, I really loved the nod to the solo from YYZ during JP's solo.

I remember on the s/t Patrucci had described his tone as something akin to a rich chocolate layer cake. I think his tone here matches that description so much more than on the s/t. There's something about having Portnoy back on the throne that brings everything together. The writing chemistry is back. Looking forward to Parasomnia like a kid on Christmas Eve. I've missed this feeling.

I thought it was perfectly fine at first, exactly what we'd expect, if not want, from modern Dream Theater. But now I love it, I really do!

Certainly hoping the album has shades of light and dark, though, because while I do think DT is essentially a metal band, I do agree that they're generally better when they're incorporating elements of metal. Aside from Train of Thought, as someone else said.