On this glorious day in the 2,021st year of our lord, the progressive metal gods bequeathed unto us ants A View From the Top of the World...the fullest expression of their virtuosity, the apex of their collective musical performance, a symphony of beautiful  lyrics, melodies, riffs and beats that exemplified everything they could be. They showed they were still at the top of their studio game yet willing to stretch more in part due to the brilliant mind of a Mangenius, who pushed them rhythmically to fully realize the best version of themselves I always hoped they would be.

The best of the best players making a mature, classic but edgy DT album 35 years after the band started. May its brilliance ripple through the ages as fans old and young rejoice in this once in a lifetime DT technical masterclass.

Amen.

Tried listening to it a number of times. Just can't connect with it. I think it's the only DT album I haven't purchased.

But glad it's loved! Always happy when art is appreciated, even if not by me.

Thinking out loud here but since it's Views birthday, will Mike Portnoy, as the face and fan engagement guy of DT, acknowledge it on social media as he does with every prior album or live release he was involved in.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 08:05:21 AMThinking out loud here but since it's Views birthday, will Mike Portnoy, as the face and fan engagement guy of DT, acknowledge it on social media as he does with every prior album or live release he was involved in.

Maybe, but probably not. Like you said, he does it with every album he was involved in. He had nothing to do with this.

Quote from: Adami on October 22, 2024, 08:19:07 AMMaybe, but probably not. Like you said, he does it with every album he was involved in. He had nothing to do with this.

I get it. But he's once again the face of DT, which is something larger than himself given he decided to leave. He's well aware a lot of younger fans might not even know much of a DT that he was involved in.

I think it would be nice to give View some love even if he wasn't on it. It's still your baby's 15th album and the fans are generally positive on it. I get there are egos involved but just a thought. There's still time today!

Didn't like the album at all when it came out, but upon re-listening to it last night, I really like Answering the Call, Sleeping Giant and Awaken the Master. Those are the only 3 tracks I like. The title track is just yet another generic epic; been there done that. Invisible Monster is their cheesy "goth" sound (like the new single, Night Terror, as well as A Nightmare to Remember).

The Alien is generic, and a lot of the transitions make no sense. Same with Transcending Time — you've got a major key, happy song, and then they throw in a Phrygian dominant riff out of nowhere. Just doesn't work for me.

Quote from: Adami on October 22, 2024, 07:56:27 AMTried listening to it a number of times. Just can't connect with it. I think it's the only DT album I haven't purchased.

But glad it's loved! Always happy when art is appreciated, even if not by me.

That is pretty much where I've been since it came out (although, I did buy it).  It just didn't connect for me at all.

I may give it another spin this week to see if anything has changed.  I genuinely hope so.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 07:51:43 AMOn this glorious day in the 2,021st year of our lord, the progressive metal gods bequeathed unto us ants A View From the Top of the World...the fullest expression of their virtuosity, the apex of their collective musical performance, a symphony of beautiful  lyrics, melodies, riffs and beats that exemplified everything they could be. They showed they were still at the top of their studio game yet willing to stretch more in part due to the brilliant mind of a Mangenius, who pushed them rhythmically to fully realize the best version of themselves I always hoped they would be.

The best of the best players making a mature, classic but edgy DT album 35 years after the band started. May its brilliance ripple through the ages as fans old and young rejoice in this once in a lifetime DT technical masterclass.

Amen.

Wait, you started out writing "A View..." then started talking about "Scenes From A Memory" and I got confused...



I'm kidding.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 22, 2024, 08:26:49 AMDidn't like the album at all when it came out, but upon re-listening to it last night, I really like Answering the Call, Sleeping Giant and Awaken the Master. Those are the only 3 tracks I like. The title track is just yet another generic epic; been there done that. Invisible Monster is their cheesy "goth" sound (like the new single, Night Terror, as well as A Nightmare to Remember).

The Alien is generic, and a lot of the transitions make no sense. Same with Transcending Time — you've got a major key, happy song, and then they throw in a Phrygian dominant riff out of nowhere. Just doesn't work for me.

A lot of what makes View really cool in my opinion is the drumming contribution, though still a sum of parts at the end of the day. In both mix and musicality its way more in your face than any other DT album. As a guy who does not play drums I find it to be interesting I have this other rabbit hole to go through on all the cool rhythmic content Mangenius left us with.

I see why one would use the term generic. The guitar parts and vocal melodies are DT by the book. No doubt. But you put that together with a super consistent play list and a new approach to one of the instruments and it starts to sound pretty fresh from that perspective.

One thing to clarify is that it's not just MP but it's the DT official account that also celebrates album birthdays so hopefully this sumptuous, juicy - one might even call it erotic - masterpiece will get an anniversary shoutout from someone in the circle!

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 08:24:01 AMI get it. But he's once again the face of DT, which is something larger than himself given he decided to leave. He's well aware a lot of younger fans might not even know much of a DT that he was involved in.

I think it would be nice to give View some love even if he wasn't on it. It's still your baby's 15th album and the fans are generally positive on it. I get there are egos involved but just a thought. There's still time today!

MP is not the face of DT anymore, where do you get that? It's Petrucci. And no Portnoy is not going to spend any energy acknowledging View.

Quote from: Dream Team on October 22, 2024, 10:29:40 AMMP is not the face of DT anymore, where do you get that? It's Petrucci. And no Portnoy is not going to spend any energy acknowledging View.

I don't think anyone would be surprised to know he's the fan engagement guy. It's hard to say (not that you are the one saying it) he's the heart and soul of the band, he's the messiah who is going to re establish the glorious kingdom once again, but wait he's not the or A face of the band.

Anyway, let's see if the official DT account will acknowledge View the same way it did MP era albums when he wasn't in the band any longer.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 10:42:12 AMI don't think anyone would be surprised to know he's the fan engagement guy. It's hard to say (not that you are the one saying it) he's the heart and soul of the band, he's the messiah who is going to re establish the glorious kingdom once again, but wait he's not the or A face of the band.

Anyway, let's see if the official DT account will acknowledge View the same way it did MP era albums when he wasn't in the band any longer.

I'll ask again, you okay man?

There's just so much bitterness. It can't be a healthy thing.

Quote from: Adami on October 22, 2024, 10:47:58 AMI'll ask again, you okay man?

There's just so much bitterness. It can't be a healthy thing.

lol...there's no bitterness at all. Just observation. Though if it turns out that DT Official was told not to acknowledge albums MP didn't play on THAT would be unhealthy bitterness that someone shouldn't hold onto.

I wouldn't expect it from MP.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 10:50:47 AMThough if it turns out that DT Official was told not to acknowledge albums MP didn't play on

I wouldn't expect this either.

Quote from: lightningbolt on October 22, 2024, 08:34:22 AMThat is pretty much where I've been since it came out (although, I did buy it).  It just didn't connect for me at all.

I may give it another spin this week to see if anything has changed.  I genuinely hope so.

I've been pretty "meh" about the album ever since release. I revisited it two days ago, and it's slowly starting to click for me. Not much, but still. 

It's a fantastic album.  DT often change approaches from album to album, and for the only time I can remember, with this one they made the exact changes I hoped they would after Distance Over Time (which is also a great album).

I must be in the minority but Invisible Monster is by far my favorite from that album. I think the instrumental melody is very satisfying and it makes me feel something.

The rest of the album doesn't make me feel anything, aside from The Alien which is admittedly a very strong energetic monster track - with a serviceable chorus. Love the JP lead and how spacious everything feels in the arrangement at that point in the track.

Some other cool parts here and there, definitely. All in all I feel most tracks miss a strong vocal melody to latch onto. The production is fantastic and it's bittersweet to me that Mangini left the band after View, the album where his drums sounded the best IMO.

Quote from: PixelDream on October 22, 2024, 11:17:10 AMI must be in the minority but Invisible Monster is by far my favorite from that album. I think the instrumental melody is very satisfying and it makes me feel something.

The rest of the album doesn't make me feel anything, aside from The Alien which is admittedly a very strong energetic monster track - with a serviceable chorus. Love the JP lead and how spacious everything feels in the arrangement at that point in the track.

Some other cool parts here and there, definitely. All in all I feel most tracks miss a strong vocal melody to latch onto. The production is fantastic and it's bittersweet to me that Mangini left the band after View, the album where his drums sounded the best IMO.

You are definitely in the minority.

This is my favourite DT album from the Mangini era, and actually my favourite since Octavarium. I can't even really articulate why I like it so much, but every single song on it has managed to grow on me in a way that hasn't happened in a long time. The title track, in particular, has become a song I have gone back to over and over again (I swear I didn't mean that as a reference to the lyrics  ), to the point where I will sometimes just keep listening to side 4 of the vinyl repeatedly. I'm so glad that I got the chance to hear it live at my first DT concert a couple of years ago, especially in light of everything that's happened since then - I think even before MP rejoined the band it was unlikely that they'd ever play it again, and now I think the chances of ever hearing it live again are about the same as DT deciding to make a polka album. 

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2024, 11:11:21 AMIt's a fantastic album.  DT often change approaches from album to album, and for the only time I can remember, with this one they made the exact changes I hoped they would after Distance Over Time (which is also a great album).

I honestly have no idea where you are getting they change approach from album to album... The songwriting and song structures have literally been the same old thing since Systematic Chaos... they haven't broken outside the box or tried anything truly new, inventive, creative, or experimental, since SDOIT...

And before anyone brings it up, no, I won't consider The Astonishing as new or different, because all the ballads on that album are very similar to ballads from any of the other albums, stylistically. Being a double album and being the softest album doesn't make it inventive or experimental or different.

I'm so sick of the back-and-forth leads, followed by a unison; their whole "as usual" formula has become really tired, boring and predictable.

Really wish they would reinvent themselves, and try something new for a change, instead of recycling the same old "DT by numbers" stuff. They won't, though.

I don't think they're going to acknowledge the View anniversary because they have other things to post now, and it's crucial to keep the core messaging of them currently being on this tour front and center social media wise. If it was a big anniversary of a *really* classic album, it's likely they would have still posted about it to get some easy engagement, but it's only three years. It's not even a round number. Mike uses his social media more for self-branding and his brand is "lots of posts about minor details", but he's doing this series where he posts about albums he's actually played on, so I don't expect DT albums he hasn't played on to sneak in there.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 22, 2024, 11:39:29 AMI honestly have no idea where you are getting they change approach from album to album... The songwriting and song structures have literally been the same old thing since Systematic Chaos... they haven't broken outside the box or tried anything truly new, inventive, creative, or experimental, since SDOIT...

And before anyone brings it up, no, I won't consider The Astonishing as new or different, because all the ballads on that album are very similar to ballads from any of the other albums, stylistically. Being a double album and being the softest album doesn't make it inventive or experimental or different.

I mean, you realize there is more to putting together an album than just the song structures, right?

When I say "approach" I am talking about where FII attempted to also include more "pop" songs, whereas SFAM was a concept album, and 6DOIT was wildly experimental, then TOT all intense, Octavarium came back to a lot of pop-friendly compositions in a conceptual framework along with the title track, etc etc.  Different approaches.

Come on, buddy.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on October 22, 2024, 11:45:53 AMI don't think they're going to acknowledge the View anniversary because they have other things to post now, and it's crucial to keep the core messaging of them currently being on this tour front and center social media wise. If it was a big anniversary of a *really* classic album, it's likely they would have still posted about it to get some easy engagement, but it's only three years. It's not even a round number. Mike uses his social media more for self-branding and his brand is "lots of posts about minor details", but he's doing this series where he posts about albums he's actually played on, so I don't expect DT albums he hasn't played on to sneak in there.

The day is still young and I'm keeping the faith! They acknowledged even less popular albums that are definitely not classics like SC in the past.

Since MP has returned the account has not stopped the happy birthdays generally. I know this must be a coincidence that it has not acknowledged ADTOE or DT12 either. Maybe they hired a new guy for media who just took those days off or something. Haha maybe he was going to do it but took a long bathroom break and then it slipped his mind. I don't even want to think of the adjectives one could use if it were purposeful (bitter comes to mind!) but like I said, there would be no reason to just exclude ALL of the non-MP albums from your routine IG engagement.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2024, 11:49:29 AMI mean, you realize there is more to putting together an album than just the song structures, right?

When I say "approach" I am talking about where FII attempted to also include more "pop" songs, whereas SFAM was a concept album, and 6DOIT was wildly experimental, then TOT all intense, Octavarium came back to a lot of pop-friendly compositions in a conceptual framework along with the title track, etc etc.  Different approaches.

Come on, buddy.

It's scary how similarly our minds work at times!

Quote from: PixelDream on October 22, 2024, 11:17:10 AMI must be in the minority but Invisible Monster is by far my favorite from that album. I think the instrumental melody is very satisfying and it makes me feel something.

The rest of the album doesn't make me feel anything, aside from The Alien which is admittedly a very strong energetic monster track - with a serviceable chorus. Love the JP lead and how spacious everything feels in the arrangement at that point in the track.

Some other cool parts here and there, definitely. All in all I feel most tracks miss a strong vocal melody to latch onto. The production is fantastic and it's bittersweet to me that Mangini left the band after View, the album where his drums sounded the best IMO.

I know we're not big on lists here at DT, but allow me this indulgence (the number is overall ranking):

33   Transcending Time
43   A View from the Top of the World
54   Answering the Call
97   Awaken the Master
105   Sleeping Giant
122   The Alien
174   Invisible Monster

Quote from: Stadler on October 22, 2024, 12:58:09 PMI know we're not big on lists here at DT

 


16  The Alien
39  A View From The Top Of The World
41  Sleeping Giant
80  Awaken The Master
NR  Transcending Time
NR  Answering The Call
NR  Invisible Monster

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2024, 11:49:29 AMI mean, you realize there is more to putting together an album than just the song structures, right?

When I say "approach" I am talking about where FII attempted to also include more "pop" songs, whereas SFAM was a concept album, and 6DOIT was wildly experimental, then TOT all intense, Octavarium came back to a lot of pop-friendly compositions in a conceptual framework along with the title track, etc etc.  Different approaches.

Come on, buddy.

Okay, so slightly different styles. Still doesn't negate the fact they've been repeating themselves since SC.

to me they didn't repeat themselves a lot (if anything) on MM's five albums, certainly not during View. (they did repeat themselves on SC and BC/SL though IMHO)

Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 22, 2024, 11:39:29 AMI honestly have no idea where you are getting they change approach from album to album... The songwriting and song structures have literally been the same old thing since Systematic Chaos... they haven't broken outside the box or tried anything truly new, inventive, creative, or experimental, since SDOIT...

As someone who is obsessed with song structures, I gotta say this couldn't be more wrong. DT in the late Portnoy era were stuck in a rut when it comes to this - we were getting more and more 10+ minute songs which were all basically the same in their core structure - extended intro, verse/chorus x2, extended instrumental section (sometimes way out of place), back to the chorus. The shorter pieces were usually the same but with shorter intros and instrumental sections. Not a whole lot of deviation from that, really. Then you get to the self-titled album and suddenly there is a lot of variety in the way songs are shaped. Verses sound surprising, second verses sometimes totally deviate from the first, solo parts happen in unexpected places or develop in unusual ways, not every ending is as you would've expected earlier on. Distance Over Time kept the self-titled approach to some degree, so on both of those albums DT very clearly worked to get away from the usual stuff structure-wise, working with much tighter structures and surprising twists at much earlier points within a song. View was more traditional when it came to having big closing choruses, but quite creative when it came to having quite different verses. Both Sleeping Giant and Awaken the Master have extended instrumental sections, but keep these developing in more organic ways than just having everyone shred over the same riff, and the music before and after is also quite inventively structured. For example, how about that 2nd chorus of Sleeping Giant that's totally different from the other two? And the title track also defies expectations - instead of a big bombastic ending section we get a totally transformed, very odd and dramatic variation of the main theme. And again, the verses in the first section are completely different from each other despite leading into the same chorus.

QuoteAnd before anyone brings it up, no, I won't consider The Astonishing as new or different, because all the ballads on that album are very similar to ballads from any of the other albums, stylistically. Being a double album and being the softest album doesn't make it inventive or experimental or different.

Weird cop-out. The Astonishing is in fact vastly different from anything before or since because so many songs don't even follow the standard verse/chorus pattern at all. Many never return to a chorus at the end but instead take detours based entirely on the plot rather than musical considerations. For some songs you'd be hard-pressed to even identify a "chorus". I can totally see people not liking that, but complaining about it being the same as every other time is rather silly. It just isn't.

QuoteI'm so sick of the back-and-forth leads, followed by a unison; their whole "as usual" formula has become really tired, boring and predictable.

I'm tired of this as well and it's the only real blemish on View to have them revert to that pattern in a few places, but the way solo spots are handled is hardly the only aspect of the song structures.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on October 22, 2024, 11:11:21 AMIt's a fantastic album.  DT often change approaches from album to album, and for the only time I can remember, with this one they made the exact changes I hoped they would after Distance Over Time (which is also a great album).

As someone who thinks View is very "DT by numbers," what changes did they make between the two that you were hoping for and enjoyed? IMO D/T is the best Mangini-era album, so View felt like a big step down. Not terrible, not great, just C-tier

Quote from: skydivingninja on October 23, 2024, 04:30:09 AMAs someone who thinks View is very "DT by numbers," what changes did they make between the two that you were hoping for and enjoyed? IMO D/T is the best Mangini-era album, so View felt like a big step down. Not terrible, not great, just C-tier

Here's what I wanted after DoT. I wanted a thick technical show offy kind of album. And that's what I got, so I was thrilled.

It's like they took Pale Blue Dot and fashioned an album after it.

I thought the band needed to reestablish that part of their identity 

DoT, IMO, tries to be too many things at once. View is more of a statement.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on October 22, 2024, 10:42:12 AMI don't think anyone would be surprised to know he's the fan engagement guy. It's hard to say (not that you are the one saying it) he's the heart and soul of the band, he's the messiah who is going to re establish the glorious kingdom once again, but wait he's not the or A face of the band.

There's often a lot of value in your posts but this sort of stuff is cheap. Just... give it a rest; it's tiresome.

Quote from: Kyo on October 23, 2024, 03:22:10 AMAs someone who is obsessed with song structures, I gotta say this couldn't be more wrong. DT in the late Portnoy era were stuck in a rut when it comes to this - we were getting more and more 10+ minute songs which were all basically the same in their core structure - extended intro, verse/chorus x2, extended instrumental section (sometimes way out of place), back to the chorus. The shorter pieces were usually the same but with shorter intros and instrumental sections. Not a whole lot of deviation from that, really. Then you get to the self-titled album and suddenly there is a lot of variety in the way songs are shaped. Verses sound surprising, second verses sometimes totally deviate from the first, solo parts happen in unexpected places or develop in unusual ways, not every ending is as you would've expected earlier on. Distance Over Time kept the self-titled approach to some degree, so on both of those albums DT very clearly worked to get away from the usual stuff structure-wise, working with much tighter structures and surprising twists at much earlier points within a song. View was more traditional when it came to having big closing choruses, but quite creative when it came to having quite different verses. Both Sleeping Giant and Awaken the Master have extended instrumental sections, but keep these developing in more organic ways than just having everyone shred over the same riff, and the music before and after is also quite inventively structured. For example, how about that 2nd chorus of Sleeping Giant that's totally different from the other two? And the title track also defies expectations - instead of a big bombastic ending section we get a totally transformed, very odd and dramatic variation of the main theme. And again, the verses in the first section are completely different from each other despite leading into the same chorus.


Weird cop-out. The Astonishing is in fact vastly different from anything before or since because so many songs don't even follow the standard verse/chorus pattern at all. Many never return to a chorus at the end but instead take detours based entirely on the plot rather than musical considerations. For some songs you'd be hard-pressed to even identify a "chorus". I can totally see people not liking that, but complaining about it being the same as every other time is rather silly. It just isn't.


I'm tired of this as well and it's the only real blemish on View to have them revert to that pattern in a few places, but the way solo spots are handled is hardly the only aspect of the song structures.

Way too much to read; just skimmed the first few sentences. You gotta learn how to break long posts up into paragraphs. The overall point I'm making is that they've not been a truly progressive band since SDOIT. Every album in the 90s/early 2000s; from WDADU all the way to SDOIT, each album sounds drastically different from the previous and the next. That all stopped after Octavarium. If you want to say The Astonishing is totally different, fine go ahead, but I disagree. It's basically just taking something like Through Her Eyes, and making a whole album out of it.

They're not really a progressive band, in the true sense of the word, anymore. They are a recycling band. And even if there are slight differences in song structures, the overall point that I was making is, the odd time signatures, the trading solos, the obligatory unison, all that shit...it has gotten very old, stale, boring and predictable. In order to return to being truly progressive, they have to shake things up, change the formula, try something outside of the box. But, we all know they won't.

All they do for each writing session now is go down the checklist of things they feel the fans expect of them, and make sure that it's thrown in there. Instead of it being the other way around, writing, naturally and organically; the characteristics they got known for early on, now dictate their writing process.

Quote from: nobloodyname on October 23, 2024, 05:14:02 AMThere's often a lot of value in your posts but this sort of stuff is cheap. Just... give it a rest; it's tiresome.

Would you prefer we get back to the 3 year old and running  quality programming of the moment which is a dead end pile on of JLB?