Quote from: Awaken on February 05, 2025, 03:41:44 AMKind of odd observation - and I could be way off - but it kind of seems like everyone except JLB has been referring to playing with 'another drummer' a lot (read:  pretty much always).  JLB has been the only one I've heard refer to Mike Mangini by name as their former drummer.  Probably nothing, just listening to yet another interview where this seems to be the case.

Yeah, I've seen it both ways. Not sure if MP sitting there changes the dynamic at all.

Quote from: Shadowmangini on February 04, 2025, 01:53:32 PMI don't know why anybody cares to side with the guy who wasn't even a real member. DT is Petrucci/Myung/Portnoy/LaBrie and at this point Rudess too. Mangini was never even good

How long are we going to drag this out?  Should I just ban you now and get it over with?  Because I don't have time for this bullshit again.

Hi everybody, long time no see!

I was reading the latest issue of the Finnish metal magazine Inferno, which includes an interview with MP, and he opened up about the timeline of the reunion talks (my translation below):

QuoteWhen and how did the reunion become reality?

I was on a European tour with The Winery Dogs in June 2023, and one day my phone rang. It was John Petrucci: "Mike, the situation right now is that the drummer slot in Dream Theater is open. How about it?" My head was buzzing and the feeling was surreally dreamlike. The answer was instantly clear for me, because I'd dreamed of rejoining the band for a long time.
By the time my return was announced in October 2023, we hadn't played a note together. It wasn't until February 2024 that we finally gathered in the same room when we started preparing the new album.

The Winery Dogs' summer tour that year began on June 12 and ended on June 27, while DT kicked off Dreamsonic on June 16, which in effect means that the decision to bring MP back was made either right before the tour or in the early days of it, while they still had plenty of shows to play with Mangini. This confirms my suspicion that they'd planned the reunion well in advance to make sure MP wouldn't commit to another project or tour in early 2024 when they were going to be in the studio. It must've been awkward to tour with Mangini and keep the secret from him, but I'm not going to judge the guys for this, and it's not the first time they've done this anyway (see: transition from Derek to Jordan).

Interesting. Unless it's clumsily recalled from MP, it seems like they made the decision to let Mangini go?

I'd say it's almost certainly down to Dreamsonic attendance numbers

Quote from: genome on February 16, 2025, 04:02:36 AMI'd say it's almost certainly down to Dreamsonic attendance numbers

Well interestingly, if those dates are accurate that indicates JP talked to Mike before or early into Dreamsonic, which points towards Dreamsonic attendance to not be a factor (unless they decided literally while on tour, which seems unlikely).

Well, the low attendance issue happened during the View tour. In Spain, for example, they cancelled one gig and the gig at Barcelona wasn't packed at all and it wasn't a big venue.

Quote from: genome on February 16, 2025, 04:02:36 AMInteresting. Unless it's clumsily recalled from MP, it seems like they made the decision to let Mangini go?

I'd say it's almost certainly down to Dreamsonic attendance numbers

They'd begun thinking about it after the View world tour. James has said essentially that in incredibly vague language but you can read between the lines. Dreamsonic attendance probably just made it a much easier decision, as it likely represented the worst part of a much longer trend.

I still find it mind-boggling how the other three instrumentalists (JP, JM and JR) saw James consistently deliver his worst performances to date back in 2022-2023, yet they arrived to the "we need to bring out old drummer back" conclusion.

We already knew they just let Mangini go and gave Portnoy his old spot back, confirmed by themselves in different interviews, but this makes it seem like the change had already happened unofficially long before it materialized. It gets worse if you consider they still played a whole tour leg + JP's guitar camp with MM while they had already secured his replacement without him ever knowing. They basically kept him around while he was useful until the other guy was ready to commit.

Even worse than that is that MP himself attended one of the Dreamsonic shows with Marlene and posted about it online. If this timeline is accurate, can you imagine the 6 of them just hanging out backstage with 5 of them knowing what's about to happen, while Mike M had no clue? Yes, I know this is a business and all, but on a personal, human relationships level, it sucks.

Worst of all, when this was first announced officially, some people here even went to say "he should've seen it coming" or even expected it for not being an original member

I still wonder if there was some kind of personality dynamic or conflict that occurred. Something that made JP realize that things weren't going to work out. Ah well, that's their business not mine.

Quote from: emtee on February 16, 2025, 04:49:55 AMI still wonder if there was some kind of personality dynamic or conflict that occurred. Something that made JP realize that things weren't going to work out. Ah well, that's their business not mine.

Hard to imagine a personality issue coming into play 14 years later. John got his best friend back in the band and a crap ton of money to along with it. No real personality conflict hints anywhere.

Quote from: emtee on February 16, 2025, 04:49:55 AMI still wonder if there was some kind of personality dynamic or conflict that occurred. Something that made JP realize that things weren't going to work out. Ah well, that's their business not mine.

That's entirely possible and completely fine if it were the case, but then just replace the guy and move on, don't keep him until he's no longer useful to your plans. If you have to cancel the tour/camp/whatever then so be it. It's character.

Quote from: gzarruk on February 16, 2025, 04:42:53 AMI still find it mind-boggling how the other three instrumentalists (JP, JM and JR) saw James consistently deliver his worst performances to date back in 2022-2023, yet they arrived to the "we need to bring out old drummer back" conclusion.

We already knew they just let Mangini go and gave Portnoy his old spot back, confirmed by themselves in different interviews, but this makes it seem like the change had already happened unofficially long before it materialized. It gets worse if you consider they still played a whole tour leg + JP's guitar camp with MM while they had already secured his replacement without him ever knowing. They basically kept him around while he was useful until the other guy was ready to commit.

Even worse than that is that MP himself attended one of the Dreamsonic shows with Marlene and posted about it online. If this timeline is accurate, can you imagine the 6 of them just hanging out backstage with 5 of them knowing what's about to happen, while Mike M had no clue? Yes, I know this is a business and all, but on a personal, human relationships level, it sucks.

Worst of all, when this was first announced officially, some people here even went to say "he should've seen it coming" or even expected it for not being an original member

James being around after so many performance issues over the years is just a matter of loyalty and friendship. James always says they're brothers. Whereas I say Mike Mangini was a private sector employee

I saw that JLB interview and he was asked a question and you could tell he was caught off guard. Then I caught this video but I have no idea how legit it is so consider this as a FYI only post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmxYcaa3YhE

That's pretty juicy! Everything up until now pointed at the decision being made during the lull period. I'm not gonna judge them for this either, it was just one tour leg and once they had decided they had to ask Mike immediately to make sure he wouldn't commit elsewhere, like ? said.

I wish things would have been different and they had announced it as soon as the decision had been made, making Dreamsonic into Mike's farewell tour.

That's interesting that Petrucci said to him, "the drummer slot is open," as that leads us to believe that Mangini was being let go from the band even if Portnoy had declined the offer to rejoin the band.  That's a twist.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on February 16, 2025, 05:47:10 AMI wish things would have been different and they had announced it as soon as the decision had been made, making Dreamsonic into Mike's farewell tour.

If you were Mike M, would you've done the tour knowing you would be out of the band, not by your own doing, the minute after the last show ended? I personally wouldn't.

Quote from: KevShmev on February 16, 2025, 05:58:45 AMThat's interesting that Petrucci said to him, "the drummer slot is open," as that leads us to believe that Mangini was being let go from the band even if Portnoy had declined the offer to rejoin the band.  That's a twist.

See, and for me, that means he just found a tactful way to say that they want Mike back! I don't think the change would have happened at all if MP had said no. The main objective of the change was to get Mike back. That's probably why they asked him first and waited for him to say yes. But JP probably knew from their previous touring and recording together that Mike would say yes.

Quote from: gzarruk on February 16, 2025, 06:23:26 AMIf you were Mike M, would you've done the tour knowing you would be out of the band, not by your own doing, the minute after the last show ended? I personally wouldn't.

Maybe they thought so too and that's why they didn't tell him. But he reacted so well once they did tell him that in hindsight I don't think it would have been a concern. Plus he would have really gotten his flowers on that tour, which would have been nice!

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on February 16, 2025, 05:47:10 AMThat's pretty juicy! Everything up until now pointed at the decision being made during the lull period. I'm not gonna judge them for this either, it was just one tour leg and once they had decided they had to ask Mike immediately to make sure he wouldn't commit elsewhere, like ? said.

I wish things would have been different and they had announced it as soon as the decision had been made, making Dreamsonic into Mike's farewell tour.

Mike P said in an interview the decision was made about a month before it was announced.

If they'd announced it would be the last tour with MM, and MP was coming back, there's the HUGE chance of people just not showing up for that tour, because they'd wait for the one with MP back.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on February 16, 2025, 06:47:01 AMSee, and for me, that means he just found a tactful way to say that they want Mike back! I don't think the change would have happened at all if MP had said no. The main objective of the change was to get Mike back. That's probably why they asked him first and waited for him to say yes. But JP probably knew from their previous touring and recording together that Mike would say yes.
Maybe they thought so too and that's why they didn't tell him. But he reacted so well once they did tell him that in hindsight I don't think it would have been a concern. Plus he would have really gotten his flowers on that tour, which would have been nice!

I tend to agree with the bolded. It's kind of like when JP was doing his solo album and MP said something to the effect of "well I am available if you need a drummer". MP has made no bones about wanting back in DT over the years and I have to think that MM always had this in the back of his mind that he was a fill-in and always was a fill-in for his entire career. He has said this on numerous occasions.

MM is a class act and he is not going to rock the boat but if they told him before the Dreamsonic tour, I have no doubt that he would have given his all and be a professional on that tour.

I would be curious to know what his contract situation was. 10 years and they decided not renew? (pure speculation on my part)

Quote from: hunnus2000 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:04 AMI would be curious to know what his contract situation was. 10 years and they decided not renew? (pure speculation on my part)

I think it was just what you said, JP realized MP is available and willing and everyone's fine and he could imagine them working again. Judging by other things we've heard about the reunion (such as, Mike and John didn't discuss any business things at all in that first conversation), I assume they finagled themselves out of contracts and corporate things later, after the calls were all done.

Everyone always assumes DT are more business-minded than they actually are. IMO, they are business-minded in things that matter less to them, like making other business deals and passive income, keeping to steady touring (I can't imagine they NEVER wanted to take a longer break off their schedule), keeping costs down, in order for them to be less business-minded in things that REALLY matter to them - like making albums the way they want to make them, working with people they like, finding out how they can have their own studio...

Quote from: KevShmev on February 16, 2025, 05:58:45 AMThat's interesting that Petrucci said to him, "the drummer slot is open," as that leads us to believe that Mangini was being let go from the band even if Portnoy had declined the offer to rejoin the band.  That's a twist.

Wow, wouldn't it have been amazing if someone here had been saying since day one that we don't know all the facts, and it would be foolish to jump to conclusions? 

Now, the next piece of information ... do we KNOW when Mike Mangini got the call?  Do we KNOW he didn't have any clue until after Dreamsonic? 

(And by the way, this isn't even top ten in examples of artists "riding out" a commitment, knowing that the arrangements were going to change at the end of whatever that commitment was.  Peter Gabriel knew he was gone before the Lamb tour.  Ian Gillan knew he was going and did dates after.  Ace Frehley appeared in a couple videos almost a YEAR after he was effectively gone from Kiss.  Rick Wright.)

Quote from: gzarruk on February 16, 2025, 06:23:26 AMIf you were Mike M, would you've done the tour knowing you would be out of the band, not by your own doing, the minute after the last show ended? I personally wouldn't.

Under no circumstances?  We still don't know if there were any conversations between Mike M. and John et al that led to there being an open slot.  I think we do know that Mangini got a call that there was going to be a reunion, and the MIKE P. decision was stated to be a month or so before the announcement, but clearly A decision of some kind had been made before then, and we still don't know what Mangini's involvement was in that. 

Also, it costs money to cancel arrangements.  Sure, other artists have said fuck it and bailed - Ritchie Blackmore for one - but Sammy Hagar has been clear that he would absolutely have bailed from the 2004 Van Halen tour because of Eddie, but he wasn't willing to pay the consequences.

Quote from: Stadler on February 16, 2025, 02:09:15 PMUnder no circumstances?  We still don't know if there were any conversations between Mike M. and John et al that led to there being an open slot.  I think we do know that Mangini got a call that there was going to be a reunion, and the MIKE P. decision was stated to be a month or so before the announcement, but clearly A decision of some kind had been made before then, and we still don't know what Mangini's involvement was in that. 

I'm pretty sure Mike Mangini did NOT know until after the Dreamsonic tour. I'll try and find out for sure, but that's not what I was led to believe.

I am convinced, however, that JP was lining up the return of MP either before or during the tour.

there were interviews with MM while promoting his new album, and he sincerely didn't know "when the guys would go into the studio again".

Is there any chance that Mangini started working on his solo album as a kind of insurance policy in case Dream Theater ended up reuniting with Portnoy? I always thought it was coincidental that right around the time news of the reunion broke, Mangini was talking about his solo album. But maybe once he saw the band getting friendly with Portnoy again he figured his days in the band could be limited, so why not start working on a new project. I'm obviously just speculating here, but I'd love to know how things really went down.

I really hope we get an updated version of Lifting Shadows (or better yet, a sequel that starts with the Mangini years and takes us right up to the whatever the present day is at the time) sometime that has inside information about the whole situation.

Quote from: Schurftkut on February 17, 2025, 12:09:42 AMthere were interviews with MM while promoting his new album, and he sincerely didn't know "when the guys would go into the studio again".

I take those kinds of statements with a grain of salt, though.  If he knows something and can't speak about it, or even speak about things he knows but can't speak about (if that makes sense), then an innocuous "not really a lie, but maybe not the full story" like "I don't know when the guys would go into the studio again" is the kind of thing you'd say.

He was twitchy when answering those questions in interviews leading up to MP's reinstatement.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on February 16, 2025, 05:47:10 AMThat's pretty juicy! Everything up until now pointed at the decision being made during the lull period. I'm not gonna judge them for this either, it was just one tour leg and once they had decided they had to ask Mike immediately to make sure he wouldn't commit elsewhere, like ? said.

I wish things would have been different and they had announced it as soon as the decision had been made, making Dreamsonic into Mike's farewell tour.

Yeah, that would have been the fair thing to do. They could have given MM a proper send off, or, God forbid, if he insisted on quitting on the spot, they could have called a heavy hitter to replace him. Imagine a DT tour leg with Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang or Marco Minnemann. Would have been a win-win.

Quote from: Schurftkut on February 16, 2025, 08:32:31 AMIf they'd announced it would be the last tour with MM, and MP was coming back, there's the HUGE chance of people just not showing up for that tour, because they'd wait for the one with MP back.

This is a good point, however. Anyway, things happen how the happen.

Quote from: Stadler on January 31, 2025, 05:50:47 AMI saw two shows on John's solo tour, though, and the connection and joy between Mike and John was palpable.  I was actually surprised at how strong and obvious it was.

Same, the energy and chemistry was so apparent.  James commented the same in an interview seeing the tour in Montreal he said the chemistry is undeniable. 

From another interview I think it was with MP it sounded like JP asked at some point would he be interested in doing a reunion if the opportunity was there. 

Quote from: Stadler on January 31, 2025, 05:50:47 AMI saw two shows on John's solo tour, though, and the connection and joy between Mike and John was palpable.  I was actually surprised at how strong and obvious it was.

A friend of mine who lives in Toronto attended that stop on the tour and he told me very similar things when I asked him how it was. Apparently was a common thing during the tour to elicit that kind of reaction in the audience.

Quote from: ? on February 16, 2025, 02:50:34 AMHi everybody, long time no see!

I was reading the latest issue of the Finnish metal magazine Inferno, which includes an interview with MP, and he opened up about the timeline of the reunion talks (my translation below):
The Winery Dogs' summer tour that year began on June 12 and ended on June 27, while DT kicked off Dreamsonic on June 16, which in effect means that the decision to bring MP back was made either right before the tour or in the early days of it, while they still had plenty of shows to play with Mangini. This confirms my suspicion that they'd planned the reunion well in advance to make sure MP wouldn't commit to another project or tour in early 2024 when they were going to be in the studio. It must've been awkward to tour with Mangini and keep the secret from him, but I'm not going to judge the guys for this, and it's not the first time they've done this anyway (see: transition from Derek to Jordan).

No disrespect, but any chance the line.. "

Quote from: ? on February 16, 2025, 02:50:34 AMIt was John Petrucci: "Mike, the situation right now is that the drummer slot in Dream Theater is open. How about it?"

..might be a translation issue? It is an odd thing for JP to say. I feel like there was an implied meaning between JP and MP that the spot would be open for him if he truly wanted to come back.

Quote from: gzarruk on February 16, 2025, 04:42:53 AMEven worse than that is that MP himself attended one of the Dreamsonic shows with Marlene and posted about it online. If this timeline is accurate, can you imagine the 6 of them just hanging out backstage with 5 of them knowing what's about to happen, while Mike M had no clue? Yes, I know this is a business and all, but on a personal, human relationships level, it sucks.

I thought that MP went to the leg before Dreamsonic.

Also, JP stated that he brought the idea to the rest of the band of MP returning after Dreamsonic.
Like I said, I think JP knew what was going to happen, but if what he said is to be believed, the band did not.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on February 16, 2025, 05:47:10 AMThat's pretty juicy! Everything up until now pointed at the decision being made during the lull period. I'm not gonna judge them for this either, it was just one tour leg and once they had decided they had to ask Mike immediately to make sure he wouldn't commit elsewhere, like ? said.

As far as the band goes, they have stated that it was. JP was obviously ahead of it.

Quote from: emtee on February 16, 2025, 04:49:55 AMI still wonder if there was some kind of personality dynamic or conflict that occurred. Something that made JP realize that things weren't going to work out. Ah well, that's their business not mine.

I really don't believe that.

Quote from: KevShmev on February 16, 2025, 05:58:45 AMThat's interesting that Petrucci said to him, "the drummer slot is open," as that leads us to believe that Mangini was being let go from the band even if Portnoy had declined the offer to rejoin the band.  That's a twist.

I think this was simply lost in translation.

Quote from: genome on February 16, 2025, 04:02:36 AMInteresting. Unless it's clumsily recalled from MP, it seems like they made the decision to let Mangini go?

I'd say it's almost certainly down to Dreamsonic attendance numbers

I think they obviously saw the business opportunity with MP returning, but they've all stressed how much of their friendship/chemistry was the deciding factor.

MP was returning and I don't think Dreamsonic had anything to do with it.

There was an interview recently that they acknowledged that the 40th anniversary was coming up, and this could be a great time to make the move.

Quote from: TAC on February 17, 2025, 01:13:00 PMNo disrespect, but any chance the line.. "..might be a translation issue? It is an odd thing for JP to say. I feel like there was an implied meaning between JP and MP that the spot would be open for him if he truly wanted to come back.


I thought that MP went to the leg before Dreamsonic.

Also, JP stated that he brought the idea to the rest of the band of MP returning after Dreamsonic.
Like I said, I think JP knew what was going to happen, but if what he said is to be believed, the band did not.




As far as the band goes, they have stated that it was. JP was obviously ahead of it.


I really don't believe that.


I think this was simply lost in translation.


I think they obviously saw the business opportunity with MP returning, but they've all stressed how much of their friendship/chemistry was the deciding factor.

MP was returning and I don't think Dreamsonic had anything to do with it.

There was an interview recently that they acknowledged that the 40th anniversary was coming up, and this could be a great time to make the move.

I think you're right about the translation. The guys have actually spelled the timeline out directly in interviews.

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on February 17, 2025, 01:26:20 PMI think you're right about the translation. The guys have actually spelled the timeline out directly in interviews.

I think this all went down exactly how they've described. They have all seemed to be pretty upfront about how it all went down. I don't think there's anything nefarious about it.

Speaking of interview translations, I recall an interview with JLB some years ago.  The interview was obviously done in English, but it was for a non-English (Italian, I think?) publication.  Later, I read an English translation of said interview (so, it was translated from English to another language, and then, translated back to English).  I don't remember much about the interview in general, but there was one question about how JLB writes lyrics.  The thing that stuck out with me in the response was that he sat down with his pottery gathered around him.  And I always wondered what he really said.