Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions

[Big Hath]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

[MoraWintersoul]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

You're right, they kind of are.

[wasteland]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

You're right, they kind of are.

Well, you can say whatever you want, but The Count Of Tuscany isn't forgettable, by any means!

[Jaffa]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

You're right, they kind of are.

Well, you can say whatever you want, but The Count Of Tuscany isn't forgettable, by any means!

If you can only defend one song on the album, it's not much of a defense.

Just saying.  For the record I wouldn't describe any song on the album as forgettable, myself. 

[Rob]

I think the only thing you guys always forget is that your expectations are too damn high. 

[MetropolisWatches]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

You're right, they kind of are.

Well, you can say whatever you want, but The Count Of Tuscany isn't forgettable, by any means!

Absolutely- and it's the best track on the album (by far).

[ResultsMayVary]

Since 2009, I have listened to this album less and less. The last time I listened to this was at least several months ago and the only song I can really get through is The Count of Tuscany. None of the other songs really interest me anymore.

[philmcson]

I regularly listen to ANTR and The shattered fortress, this songs really make my day 58% better!

[Rob]

Well, I don't ever listen to this album at all.  And it's been one hell of a while since I listened to I&W. That doesn't have to say anything about the quality of it, though. Most of the time I rather listen to music that has come out lately or that currently evokes my interest.

[Zook]

I only have The Shattered Fortress and The Count Of Tuscany on my computer anymore. BC&SL would have made a better 2 song EP.

[DebraKadabra]

The Covers CD was miles better than BC/SL proper IMO.

[Big Hath]

The Covers CD was miles better than BC/SL proper IMO.

ha, I was about to post that I think I enjoy the cover songs more than the actual album.

[Dreamer81]

Since 2009, I have listened to this album less and less. The last time I listened to this was at least several months ago and the only song I can really get through is The Count of Tuscany. None of the other songs really interest me anymore.

Pretty much this!!

[DebraKadabra]

The Covers CD was miles better than BC/SL proper IMO.

ha, I was about to post that I think I enjoy the cover songs more than the actual album.

[BlobVanDam]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

I don't think anything on BCASL is forgettable, for better or worse. I find ADTOE more forgettable tbh.

[Adami]

I find the songs on BC&SL to not be terrible, but they are fairly forgettable.

I don't think anything on BCASL is forgettable, for better or worse. I find ADTOE more forgettable tbh.

This is true, the only forgettable song on BCSL to me is Shattered Fortress. I sadly remember the rest.

And I agree about ADTOE.

[Rattlehead]

I think ADToE is pretty forgettable too outside of a few songs. I don't even feel an urge listen to it any more. 

It's been a while since I've listened to BC&SL as well, although I do remember it holding my interest longer than ADToE did.

[robwebster]

I think Mike Portnoy nailed the problem with BCSL in the pre-publicity, of all places. To paraphrase...

"What does Black Clouds and Silver Linings sound like?"
"It sounds like the tenth DT album."

It's fine. It rocks, it rolls, crushes, fiddles, zips along... it picks up a couple of creaks and groans along the way, but the odd flaw isn't what undermines the album, not by a long chalk. I'd happily triple the number of rubbish bits if it meant a more adventurous album. As it is? It's just another slab of noughties Dream Theater. If you like what they did in the decade, you'll like BCSL, but not much. If you don't, you'll dislike it... but not with a passion.

Mike Portnoy leaving Dream Theater was probably the best thing that could've happened to BCSL, because it draws a line under it. Gives it a part in the legend. The Count of Tuscany isn't just another long DT song, it's Mike Portnoy's last. The album summarises 00s DT, it's the sum total of that decade - what you'd get if you put Six Degrees, Train of Thought, Octavarium and Systematic Chaos in a blender and added water. It's got its own place in the discography, its own role to play in the myth, but had they gone on to make "just the eleventh Dream Theater album," with the same line-up, same tricks, at the same approximate place in life... well, Mike Portnoy was absolutely right to suggest a hiatus. He was right on the money, something was needed, they were in a position where they could've ended up just putting out a series of BCSLs.

Sadly, he'd come up with the second-best solution.

[Rob]

I think Mike Portnoy nailed the problem with BCSL in the pre-publicity, of all places. To paraphrase...

"What does Black Clouds and Silver Linings sound like?"
"It sounds like the tenth DT album."

It's fine. It rocks, it rolls, crushes, fiddles, zips along... it picks up a couple of creaks and groans along the way, but the odd flaw isn't what undermines the album, not by a long chalk. I'd happily triple the number of rubbish bits if it meant a more adventurous album. As it is? It's just another slab of noughties Dream Theater. If you like what they did in the decade, you'll like BCSL, but not much. If you don't, you'll dislike it... but not with a passion.

Mike Portnoy leaving Dream Theater was probably the best thing that could've happened to BCSL, because it draws a line under it. Gives it a part in the legend. The Count of Tuscany isn't just another long DT song, it's Mike Portnoy's last. The album summarises 00s DT, it's the sum total of that decade - what you'd get if you put Six Degrees, Train of Thought, Octavarium and Systematic Chaos in a blender and added water. It's got its own place in the discography, its own role to play in the myth, but had they gone on to make "just the eleventh Dream Theater album," with the same line-up, same tricks, at the same approximate place in life... well, Mike Portnoy was absolutely right to suggest a hiatus. He was right on the money, something was needed, they were in a position where they could've ended up just putting out a series of BCSLs.

Sadly, he'd come up with the second-best solution.

With all due respect, the bold part is simply not true. You can't make generalizations like that, especially when it comes to music. You can't even come close to creating a valid theory this way. Impossible.

Everything you say is just putting way too much thought into the status of this album or DT's catalogue in general. The statement that this album is not adventurous enough is merely your opinion. I think there is more than enough on this album that seperates it from the rest of DT's catalogue. Sure, it's not exactly experimental, but neither is ADTOE.

What's the thing is this: It's a piece of music, you either like it or you don't. People are going to formulate their opinions on it as soon as it comes out and there will be opinions that are more fashionable than others and they get some kind of fan-following. It becomes a collective opinion. It's not even about the music anymore, it's about being Team Edward or Team Jacob. Sometimes the following is so big that it seems like this opinion has become a fact. And then the question that remains is just: "What the hell is wrong with BCSL?" and you can come up with all kinds of answers. DT have played safe, MP growls on every song, the lyrics are all about Italy, somehow.
You can say things like that about every album. I&W isn't that good because... well, it's not heavy at all. They tried to sound heavy, but the production and mix of the album totally destroyed this attempt. The drums sound awful. The snare is electronic, Jesus Christ, that sounds so ridiculous. In total, this album has such a strong 80's feel and who likes stuff like this? I think the problem with this album was that they were too young and didn't have a lot of experience. You can hear the wetness behind their ears through every note.

I wish people would just listen to the music itself more than speculating about it all nightmare long ().

Oh noes, I'm gonna get flamed for this, aren't I? 

[IdoSC]

I regularly listen to ANTR and The shattered fortress, this songs really make my day 58% better!

Oh god, so 5-8 is now Dream Theater's very own answer to life, universe and everything.

[Jaffa]

Oh noes, I'm gonna get flamed for this, aren't I? 

Nope.  Not by me, anyway.  For what it's worth, I don't think he was going for universal truth, only for stating his own opinion.  But your reply is equally valid and very thoughtful, and I certainly won't flame you for it. 

[goo-goo]

Don't forget about Raw Dog

What's the consensus on this one?

[wasteland]

Don't forget about Raw Dog

What's the consensus on this one?

Most pretend it was never written, including me. 

[Rob]

Well, it's pretty heavy and dark (because it was created to suit the vibe of God of War). I prefer the light side of DT, but then again, ToT is the album that got me into these guys, so I obviously also like that side. I think it's a pretty kick-ass instrumental. It's not nearly as melodic as SOC, it rather has a HTF-kinda feel. And it gets pretty crazy towards the end, which I like as well. I think it would totally fit on ToT.

[Rattlehead]

I dislike Raw Dog, but I don't dislike it to the point of wishing it was never written like BMUBMD and You Not Me.

[Jaffa]

I think I've only ever actually listened to Raw Dog two or three times.  It's sort of easy to overlook, it not being on an album.  From what I remember, it wasn't a bad song in my eyes, though it certainly wasn't anything outstanding, either.  I thought it accomplished what it set out to do pretty well. 

[philmcson]

I regularly listen to ANTR and The shattered fortress, this songs really make my day 58% better!

Oh god, so 5-8 is now Dream Theater's very own answer to life, universe and everything.

Wrong, I got the "58%" from Lemmy Kilmister's autobiography 

[robwebster]

Oh noes, I'm gonna get flamed for this, aren't I? 

Not at all - more than fair, absolutely spot on! Great post, and in fairness, the bit you bolded was a stupendously lazy bit of writing. The kind I'd want to dismantle myself. Will address it in due course.

Not now, though. Busy. Just passing on praise, for now - but yes, I will get back to you!

[Rob]

Oh noes, I'm gonna get flamed for this, aren't I? 

Not at all - more than fair, absolutely spot on! Great post, and in fairness, the bit you bolded was a stupendously lazy bit of writing. The kind I'd want to dismantle myself. Will address it in due course.

Not now, though. Busy. Just passing on praise, for now - but yes, I will get back to you!

Well, for now: Thanks.

[SeRoX]

I remember the days when it came out. The expectations were high since DT seemed so excited about the record. MP had already commented that this record has the I&W vibe all around and AFAIK, James, himself said something like MP in his offical forum. Of couse after having album like SC which was criticised so negative by old DT fans, many of us expected something close to old DT records.

To be honest, at first I was like "oh yeah I can get the I&W vibe too." but then it was a huge disappointment for me. I couldn't even stand AROP and TBOT  after one month or like. Now I think it's probably their worst along with SC. Only worth listening Wither and TCOT. ANTR is meh, TSF is a joke with some good moments. I can live happily without the rest.

[DebraKadabra]

Don't forget about Raw Dog

What's the consensus on this one?

Oh YOU...

[Ħ]

I like Raw Dog.

BCSL is not a bad album. But it's not very good either.

[Ben_Jamin]

AROP is a great live rocker but the problem is why didnt JLB sing the higher harmony, it just sounds odd without a high harmony.

I just listened to Wither, for some reason I heard The Spice Girls singing it and thought it wouldnt be bad if they did sing it...now I want a group of female singers to sing this song.

[Lowdz]

Listened to BC&SL a few days ago and still enjoyed it. It's a dcent DT album for me. There's better. I'd rather listen to it than ToT. The only song I 'm not a big fan of is ARoP, mainly for the 1st verse and the iphone solo.

[Lynxo]

I think this is one of their best. I thought so when it was released and I still think so. Sure, it has its problems. The lyrics on TBOT and TCOT range from mediocre to terrible. But ANTR is one of their coolest songs ever, Wither is an awesome ballad and TCOT is one their very best songs and would be a Top 3 if it had better lyrics. (Why, oh WHY did he write his worst lyrics of all times on such a high standard song? I will never understand how everybody let it pass.)
I certainly would call it better than ADTOE.