Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Invisible]

You Not Me sucked with or without Desmond Child.

THAT I actually agree.

[NotePad]

This may be controversial, but: I don't hear any Tool influence on ToT or 6DoIT. I wish I did though.

And I was just listening to SC. It's really not as 'not good' as I often hear said. There is some really awesome heavy riffage. The Dark Eternal Night is pretty kickass. But only at first, because it eventually falls into the wankery trap of so many DT songs. I mean seriously, why do they feel the need to do that so often? TDET is just one of many songs that could have been career highlights if they had just decided to not masturbate with their keyboards and guitars after performing awesomeness in the first few minutes.

So I don't think SC is amazing. I don't think any of their last 3 or 4 albums even came close to amazing. 8VM had a few amazing songs: These Walls, IWBS, Panic Attack. Title track was good though, I love the way it builts to the ending climiax; I do think the idea of doing that may have come from the song Lateralus, of course it sounds nothing like it though.

And FIF is not as terrible as people think. When I first got it I really enjoyed a lot of it. But that was before I got into 6DoIT, 8VM, Awake. Now when I listen to the album it just lack depth. But it's not terrible.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I've never heard TOT compared to Tool, actually.

And I think you'll find that there's a number of people here who think very highly of FII.

[Invisible]

The Tool influence I hear is in The Great Debate on 6DOIT, the strongest/borderline rip-off is on the intro and beginning of Home that they borrowed from 46 & 2 and mayyyyyybe(big maybe) the first vocal lines of Honor Thy Father.

And yep, The Dark Eternal Night instrumental is kind of pointless, but then again, the middle section of Metropolis is kind of pointless in the very same way so... On TDEN, maybe they thought if they didn't add something it would be to much of a straight metal song with no depth, that's all I can come up in it's defence. It's not among my favourites anyway, but it must be fun to hear live and chanting that silly chorus I guess.

[BlobVanDam]

The instrumental section of TDEN is one of their best ever. There are no wanky solos, no back to back shredding, and it's all well constructed and thought out so every instrument complements each other to form the whole section, rather than looping a riff and someone jamming over it later. A lot of playing around with the chromatic riffs, and creating variations with changing time signatures and shifting note. It's beautiful.
It doesn't surprise me that MM has mentioned this as one of his favourite MP songs to play, because the way it's constructed rhythmically seems like something he'd have fun playing.

[Nearmyth]

The instrumental section of TDEN is one of their best ever. There are no wanky solos, no back to back shredding, and it's all well constructed and thought out so every instrument complements each other to form the whole section, rather than looping a riff and someone jamming over it later. A lot of playing around with the chromatic riffs, and creating variations with changing time signatures and shifting note. It's beautiful.
It doesn't surprise me that MM has mentioned this as one of his favourite MP songs to play, because the way it's constructed rhythmically seems like something he'd have fun playing.

I agree with this. I love TDEN's instrumental section. It's what saves the song from being bottom tier for me personally.

[NotePad]

A lot of people ToT was Tool influenced and spawned from MPs admiration for Tools music. It's a very heavy and dark album, but I find nothing like Tool. Long songs, but DT always has that, and heavy, but also completely different from the style of music Tool make.

The instrumental sections of many of their songs are pointless. There are a LOT of DT songs that I feel are ruined by instrumental 'wankery', as they say. Honor Thy Father is almost completely destroyed by the insturmental section, but the first few minutes are just too awesome.

I feel the the first few minutes of Honor Thy Father is some of the best DT has ever done. I would love to see them do more stuff in that direction. I also really love the guitar sound of Dark Eternal Night (at least the first few minutes). I love that heavy, down-tuned guitar sound. These two songs are very dark sounding. I wish they would do another album with a very dark atmosphere, in the style of what i was saying about these songs. A man can dream.....

[Outcrier]

Always liked Honor Thy Father and the second half of the song doesn't bother me at all.

[rude boy]

Always liked Honor Thy Father and the second half of the song doesn't bother me at all.

I second that. And I do not understand the hate for You Not Me.

[adastra]

Always liked Honor Thy Father and the second half of the song doesn't bother me at all.

I second that. And I do not understand the hate for You Not Me.

TRVVV.. Everything on FII is flawless!   YOu not Me  is a catchy fucking song! 

[BlobVanDam]

Always liked Honor Thy Father and the second half of the song doesn't bother me at all.

I second that. And I do not understand the hate for You Not Me.

TRVVV.. Everything on FII is flawless!   YOu not Me  is a catchy fucking song! 

You know what else is catchy? HERPES!




Sorry, couldn't help it.
I love everything on FII except for YNM. It's nowhere near as bad as its legacy would indicate, as it's far too unremarkable to be hate-worthy, but I don't think there's anything really good about it either. It's a slight improvement over YOM though, but not by much.

[jakepriest]

I'd rather listen to You Not Me than Take The Time.

[BlobVanDam]

What's not to like about Take The Time? To me that song is pure DT perfection.

[jakepriest]

The annoying sounds KM uses like all the way through the song...
I'm not a big fan of Petrucci's riffs and the vocal melodies are just awful, especially in the chorus.
The best part of the song is by far the instrumental section, but it's still kind of meh.

[BlobVanDam]

Well you lost me on all of that, so we'll just have to agree to very strongly disagree. Easily a top 5 DT song for me.

[425]

The instrumental sections of many of their songs are pointless. There are a LOT of DT songs that I feel are ruined by instrumental 'wankery', as they say. Honor Thy Father is almost completely destroyed by the insturmental section, but the first few minutes are just too awesome.

This type of statement confuses me. This has never been not a major component of DT's sound. It's not like DT decided halfway through their career to give every song a four minute instrumental section. They've been doing it since at least the Images and Words days. I hate to be the first to frame it this way, but maybe DT isn't what you're looking for in music if you think that instrumental sections ruin songs? Because asking DT to stop making long instrumental sections is like asking James Hetfield not to sing so loudly.

And oftentimes, the instrumental is actually the best part (or one of them) of a DT song. Metropolis, Learning to Live, Beyond This Life, Blind Faith, Endless Sacrifice, Never Enough, Octavarium, The Dark Eternal Night, Illumination Theory. The Dark Eternal Night, for one example, would be rather generic metal song without the instrumental section. I can understand why someone would just want the instrumental or why someone would dislike the whole thing, but I simply do not understand why a Dream Theater fan would want to keep the first part but dump the instrumental.

[aprilethereal]

The annoying sounds KM uses like all the way through the song...
I'm not a big fan of Petrucci's riffs and the vocal melodies are just awful, especially in the chorus.
The best part of the song is by far the instrumental section, but it's still kind of meh.

I agree. Never got what's so great about Take The Time.

[adastra]

What's not to like about Take The Time? To me that song is pure DT perfection.

Boring riffing... Mediocre vocals.. 
"Not-very-imaginative"-Drumming.
Not very cool solos..
Bad haircuts..

[BlobVanDam]

What's not to like about Take The Time? To me that song is pure DT perfection.

Boring riffing... Mediocre vocals.. 
"Not-very-imaginative"-Drumming.
Not very cool solos..

.......are all things Take The Time doesn't have?
It has the grooviest bass riff DT has ever done, along with awesome metal and funky riffs from JP. And if those vocals are mediocre, then every other vocal JLB has done must be terrible. It also has one of DT's best unisons, two awesome keyboard solos (counting the intro), and an epic as hell outro guitar solo from JP.

I advise you refund and replace your copy of IaW. I'm pretty sure you must have gotten the misprint with Back in Black on it instead.

[jakepriest]

Take The Time has probably the worst keyboard solos on any DT song... god bless AROP compared to the solo sound KM uses.

[Sycsa]

[jakepriest]

If I was trying to troll, I could do much better honestly. 

[Jaffa]

Take the Time is one of my favorite songs ever.

[TheGreatPretender]

Take the Time is one of my favorite songs ever.

I don't think that's controversial. TTT is always a fan favorite.

Although I think TTT is the least awesome song on I&W.

[rumborak]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

[TheGreatPretender]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

You want to cut a half a minute from the end of me? 

[jakepriest]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

TGP is perfect the way it is. No please.

[Jaffa]

Take the Time is one of my favorite songs ever.

I don't think that's controversial. TTT is always a fan favorite.

Although I think TTT is the least awesome song on I&W.

I wasn't really going for controversial, just sort of weighing in on the discussion between Blob and jake. 

[Zook]

Take The Time has probably the worst keyboard solos on any DT song... god bless AROP compared to the solo sound KM uses.

[Rodni Demental]

Honor Thy Father is almost completely destroyed by the insturmental section, but the first few minutes are just too awesome.

I feel the the first few minutes of Honor Thy Father is some of the best DT has ever done. I would love to see them do more stuff in that direction.

Well I love to see appreciation for HTF because it's one of my favorite DT songs, and is also responsible for getting me hooked on the band back in 04. But I have to wholeheartedly disagree that the instrumental section destroys the song, I think it's the ultimate climax after building up to that point. I still get goosebumps listening to that JP riff that builds up during the samples and when the keyboard solo kicks in.. spooky. I normally always feel something from that passage, it's epic. 

[King Postwhore]

Take the Time is one of my favorite songs ever.

I don't think that's controversial. TTT is always a fan favorite.

Although I think TTT is the least awesome song on I&W.

I wasn't really going for controversial, just sort of weighing in on the discussion between Blob and jake. 

Jaffa, stop responding and say something dumb like most are saying about TTT.  Geeeeesh!

[ReaPsTA]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

The riff-o-rama section?  If so I agree.  There are lots of great riffs.  I like the section a lot.  I just wish the structure was more concise.

[Jaffa]

Take the Time is one of my favorite songs ever.

I don't think that's controversial. TTT is always a fan favorite.

Although I think TTT is the least awesome song on I&W.

I wasn't really going for controversial, just sort of weighing in on the discussion between Blob and jake. 

Jaffa, stop responding and say something dumb like most are saying about TTT.  Geeeeesh!

I don't think I could possibly say anything as dumb as what some people are saying about TTT. 

[Rodni Demental]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

The riff-o-rama section?  If so I agree.  There are lots of great riffs.  I like the section a lot.  I just wish the structure was more concise.

I appologise for speaking for someone else but I have a feeling he doesn't mean the' riff-o-rama section'. In fact that's probably widely considered to be one of the best parts of the song.. I think he means the rush-esque final vocal outro section or whatever you wanna call it. It feels like a bit of an anti-climax but at least we can transition into This Dying Soul to maintain the momentum.

[BlobVanDam]

Maybe not too controversial, but probably a solid half a minute could have been cut from the end of TGP without hurting the song in any way or fashion.

TGP is perfect the way it is. No please.

That.