Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[54_diplomats]

It's been a while since I've visited this forum. I seem to share a few of these controversial opinons lol.

I really like WDADU and generally prefer CD over LaBrie for most of the songs. I&W era LaBrie sang A Fortune in Lies and TKH amazingly though. I don't care for WDADRU much at all, LaBrie sounds awful there.

Someone posted that The Enemy Inside was the greatest song post Octavarium. I don't think it's the greatest but I think it's a damn good song and one of the only songs I go back to on that album.

ADToE is the only great MM era album.

Pull me Under is the weakest song on I&W (but still a great song)

[Trav]

Since people were talking about BC&SL, I would say that's probably at the bottom for me. It's the most uninspired sounding record of their career. Of course, in my personal opinion..blah blah blah. It's had a few great parts (specifically the ones Indiscipline mentioned).  And ironically my favorite track on there is probably Wither. I say ironic because the subject matter is about writer's block, which the whole album sounds like it suffers from. It all sounds forced and by the numbers. And the lyrics...don't get me  started.

[KevShmev]

Ya'll crazy. I've said it before and I'll say it again- BC&SL is a good album. Huge improvement over SC.

The only "dud" is a Rite of Passage, and even that song is fairly...inoffensive.

Agreed.  I gave BC&SL a fresh spin a few weeks back and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it.  Sure, A Rite of Passage is still pretty bland, and it's easily the worst collection of lyrics the band has ever done on a single album, but musically it's really good.  Nothing that is totally awesome to where I can call it one of their best, but there is much greatness (first half of A Nightmare to Remember, guitar solo in The Best of Times, last 10 minutes or so of The Count..., etc.).

[Elite]

BC&SL is my least favourite DT album, although I've felt worse about it some years ago.

The covers disc is way better.

[gzarruk]

BC&SL is my least favourite DT album, although I've felt worse about it some years ago.

The covers disc is way better.

I think the proper album is much better than the covers disc, but it's still at the bottom of the ranking for me.

[Trav]

I don't want them to do anymore covers, live or in studio. The "Xanadu" one was just on a Rush album, so that's an acceptable exception. But I will say that the covers disc for BC&SL is pretty good. For the mostly obscure song choices, if for nothing else.

[TAC]

What I like about the covers was that with the Queen and Zebra tracks, and even Rainbow, it allowed James to really shine. For a few albums, DT really hadn't asked a lot of James' range, and the covers disc really showed it off.

[Trav]

What I like about the covers was that with the Queen and Zebra tracks, and even Rainbow, it allowed James to really shine. For a few albums, DT really hadn't asked a lot of James' range, and the covers disc really showed it off.

Yes. And it was his more natural style. Not the forces harsh vocals or Muse style.

[gzarruk]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

I completely reorganized the tracklisting of SC. I kept the Constant Motion/Dark Eternal Night/Repentance stretch intact but made that the opening three songs. Then I put Ministry of Lost Souls and Forsaken back to back since they both have the wind sounds so it was easy to transition them. Then Prophets of War. Then finally I put In the Presence of Enemies in full as the closer.

[gzarruk]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

I completely reorganized the tracklisting of SC. I kept the Constant Motion/Dark Eternal Night/Repentance stretch intact but made that the opening three songs. Then I put Ministry of Lost Souls and Forsaken back to back since they both have the wind sounds so it was easy to transition them. Then Prophets of War. Then finally I put In the Presence of Enemies in full as the closer.

That's very interesting and it sounds like it would definitely work, but I just can't imagine SC opening with something else than THAT powerful ITPOE intro

[Cool Chris]

I completely reorganized the tracklisting of SC. I kept the Constant Motion/Dark Eternal Night/Repentance stretch intact but made that the opening three songs. Then I put Ministry of Lost Souls and Forsaken back to back since they both have the wind sounds so it was easy to transition them. Then Prophets of War. Then finally I put In the Presence of Enemies in full as the closer.

That's very interesting and it sounds like it would definitely work, but I just can't imagine SC opening with something else than THAT powerful ITPOE intro

No doubt! SC opening with CM/TDEN/R would be awful.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I can understand the combining of SDOIT for convenience sake, but I've never felt the need to combine ITPOE. I absolutely love how the parts are different enough to be enjoyed separately, but they're related enough to make the album's ending more rewarding as a kind of reprise. I don't think any other song on Systematic Chaos would have anywhere near the same effect as ITPOE1 as an opener or ITPOE2 as a closer, so I think splitting it up was the perfect decision.

[Mladen]

Yep, they nailed it with splitting the epic in two that time around. I coulnd't imagine a better flow if an alternative track list featured the epic as a whole. As much as I adore TMOLS, it wouldn't work as well as the closer. Also, none of the remaining songs would make a better opener.

[erwinrafael]

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

[SwedishGoose]

BC&SL is my least favourite DT album, although I've felt worse about it some years ago.

The covers disc is way better.

Totally agree with this

[DoctorAction]

Since people were talking about BC&SL, I would say that's probably at the bottom for me. It's the most uninspired sounding record of their career. Of course, in my personal opinion..blah blah blah. It's had a few great parts (specifically the ones Indiscipline mentioned).  And ironically my favorite track on there is probably Wither. I say ironic because the subject matter is about writer's block, which the whole album sounds like it suffers from. It all sounds forced and by the numbers. And the lyrics...don't get me  started.

Totally this.

[Max Kuehnau]

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

I don't know, I like the complete live version of ITPOE on Chaos In Motion (although I rarely listen to the album, but that not because of ITPOE.)

[TAC]

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

I don't know, I like the complete live version of ITPOE on Chaos In Motion (although I rarely listen to the album, but that not because of ITPOE.)

I agree. That bridge between the two parts where it's just MP

[Northern Lion]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

I'm in the same group as you.  I just don't think the ITPoE can be properly enjoyed unless it's combined as one track.  I did the same thing you did, and it turned out pretty good.  I was even able to create a real smooth and pop-free transition between the two parts.

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

I don't know, I like the complete live version of ITPOE on Chaos In Motion (although I rarely listen to the album, but that not because of ITPOE.)

I agree. That bridge between the two parts where it's just MP

I haven't yet listened to that version, I guess I'm missing out .

[gzarruk]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

I'm in the same group as you.  I just don't think the ITPoE can be properly enjoyed unless it's combined as one track.  I did the same thing you did, and it turned out pretty good.  I was even able to create a real smooth and pop-free transition between the two parts.

I like the way the split works in the album too, but I ultimately decided to combine them, as it it one big song after all (and the 2nd longest from DT after SDOIT).

The bolded part is where I struggled and eventually gave up but, again, I'm not too skilled with audio editing anyway.

[TAC]

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

I don't know, I like the complete live version of ITPOE on Chaos In Motion (although I rarely listen to the album, but that not because of ITPOE.)

I agree. That bridge between the two parts where it's just MP

I haven't yet listened to that version, I guess I'm missing out .

Lion, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8J9_fXst0k

The MP part I'm talking about is well into the "Pt. 2" section and occurs about the 15:05 mark. It was amazing live.


That said, as well as the song works as 1 song, I thought how they split it up was really cool.

[Northern Lion]

I've tried it many times but ITPOE as one song just does not work. It would sound like an overstretched BC&SL song with redundant parts.

I don't know, I like the complete live version of ITPOE on Chaos In Motion (although I rarely listen to the album, but that not because of ITPOE.)

I agree. That bridge between the two parts where it's just MP

I haven't yet listened to that version, I guess I'm missing out .

Lion, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8J9_fXst0k

The MP part I'm talking about is well into the "Pt. 2" section and occurs about the 15:05 mark. It was amazing live.


That said, as well as the song works as 1 song, I thought how they split it up was really cool.

As far as the album goes, the split works well, and is was fine for me when I first heard the album.  But if I want to enjoy just the song, I just can't listen to it split up, it bugs me to death.

[Northern Lion]

Not an opinion, but surely controversial: I just used an audio editing program and my super basic skills to turn ITPOE pt. 1 and 2 into one track, and the 8 SDOIT disc 2 tracks into another. These were written as full songs that were split into parts for their respective albums, but I wanted to have each as full lenght tracks, so I did that. I'm obviously keeping SDOIT as the last song on its album, and I'm placing the full ITPOE at the start of SC, and I think it works really well as the opener and with TMOLS as the last song.

I'm in the same group as you.  I just don't think the ITPoE can be properly enjoyed unless it's combined as one track.  I did the same thing you did, and it turned out pretty good.  I was even able to create a real smooth and pop-free transition between the two parts.

I like the way the split works in the album too, but I ultimately decided to combine them, as it it one big song after all (and the 2nd longest from DT after SDOIT).

The bolded part is where I struggled and eventually gave up but, again, I'm not too skilled with audio editing anyway.

To fix the popping issue and to get a smooth transition you need to do 3 things:

1. Instead of pasting the tracks back to back, you need to stagger them on different audio channels.

2. do a fade out of the first track once the high pitched guitar tone and the wind sound begins. (do a strait fade out and not a curved one)  Then do a fade in with the second tack.

3. Overlap the tracks right at the fade in/fade out parts.  This might take a little bit of trial and error to get the sound you want from the wind section, but it isn't real hard and it is essential.

When you're done, you should have a pop-free and smooth fade from one section to the other.  And it sounds awesome!  And if you need some more detailed instructions, I certainly don't mind helping you out.  Just PM me .

[hefdaddy42]

The covers disc of BC&SL is better than the actual album itself.

The covers are good, but I respectfully disagree.  There are some stinkers on BC&SL for sure, but I think the remainder of the songs are still better than the covers.

That's why it's controversial 

But seriously, there are only 6 songs on BC$SL, and I only like 2 of them.

lol!  Well then in your case the covers would be better.  What two songs do you like?  For me, there's only two songs that I don't.  And that's TSF and TBoT.

I like Wither and The Shattered Fortress.  The rest can go hang.

[Kotowboy]

i. I like the first three songs on Awake. The rest of it bores me

ii. I prefer Falling Into Infinity

iii. Octavarium is still my favourite DT album. Maybe D/T second.

iv. A Change Of Seasons is not great. Octavarium is a much better composition all round.

[Volante99]

iv. A Change Of Seasons is not great. Octavarium is a much better composition all round.

I would put Change of Seasons and Octavarium on equal footing. I think Octavarium is a better composition but ACoS is a better showcase of the band at their "look what I can do!" peak

[Kotowboy]

I've tried to listen to it a few times and each time it sounds more like a medley than a nice flowing piece of music like Octavarium.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I've tried to listen to it a few times and each time it sounds more like a medley than a nice flowing piece of music like Octavarium.

Musically, Octavarium is better (it's my favorite song). Lyrically, A Change of Seasons is better. They are without question the two most beloved Dream Theater epics, and both are a perfect representation of what Dream Theater is.

[geeeemo]

Yes both are great!. I like Octavarium more, but as of late have really been listening to COS more.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Ranking the epics: ACOS> Illumination Theory > Octavarium > Six Degrees >>>>>>>>>>>>>ITPOE

[IDontNotDoThings]

Ranking the epics: ACOS> Illumination Theory > Octavarium > Six Degrees >>>>>>>>>>>>>ITPOE

ACOS > ITPOE > Octavarium > TCOT > Illumination Theory > Six Degrees (as a suite; I'd rank most of the individual movements higher)

[pg1067]

Ranking the epics: ACOS> Illumination Theory > Octavarium > Six Degrees >>>>>>>>>>>>>ITPOE

You've definitely got ITPOE in the right place, but I would flip-flop SDOIT and IT.

[Northern Lion]

ITPoE>TCoT>SDoIT>ACoS>IT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>8VM

(My dukes are up and ready to fight.  Come at me ha ha ha!  )

[Dublagent66]

ACOS>SDOIT>8VM>ITPOE>TCOT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IT