MP new interview "the 12 SS is completely my concept and my baby..."

[KevShmev]

I've always thought that that main riff in A Rite of Passage was a slight retweaking of the In the Name of God riff.  It's subtle, but it's there. 

[?]

It sounds more like Misunderstood to my ears.

[BlobVanDam]

It sounds more like Misunderstood to my ears.

It does sound a little reminiscent of the post-chorus riff. I don't hear any similarity at all with ITNOG. Not even the same scale.
But a lot of riffs have similarities due to the way riffs are formed, so it doesn't matter.

[Setlist Scotty]

Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).

I believe he came up with that opening riff, ie. the bass line one.

Correct - for clarification, it's the riff repeated for the first 35 seconds of the song.

[Madman Shepherd]

Out of curiosity, I take it the "main riff" of AROP is to mean the one under the verse? That one strikes me as something a drummer would come up with (I quite like it). The other stuff I think you have to have the instrument in your hands to come up with (e.g. the opening bass line).

Mike does play some guitar.  I've seen videos of him shredding.  I think he actually played Eruption relatively accurately.  I wouldnt doubt if he actually played it on the guitar or bass. 

For being how open he is about some stuff, it is always funny when he keeps stuff quiet.  Perhaps he was never public with this because AROP is most peoples least favorite on Black Clouds (not me, it is actually my favorite).

[CodyWanKenobi]

In regards to the OP - he claims that concept is ENTIRELY his own... the lyrical concept is his, no doubt. Buuuuuuuuut... the musical concept on the other hand.... we all know who wrote that.. and his name ISN'T Mike Portnoy...

[Skeever]

Mike seems to be pretty knowledgeable musically, so I don't buy that he couldn't come up with his own compositions. If you watch the making of Kaleidoscope, documentary, Mike is holding his own talking about the songs with the guys and seems very music literate.

[Setlist Scotty]

In regards to the OP - he claims that concept is ENTIRELY his own... the lyrical concept is his, no doubt. Buuuuuuuuut... the musical concept on the other hand.... we all know who wrote that.. and his name ISN'T Mike Portnoy...

And no one, including MP would dispute that point of who wrote most of the music - the man has always been upfront and honest (see the thread about their appearance on Headbanger's Ball in 1994 for reference). However, while he may not have written much of the actual music, you can be sure that he was heavily involved with the arranging of it.

In any case, just like in the case of Geoff Tate (who it should be noted wrote only lyrics - NO music - but he'd never admit to that), because it was a concept that MP came up with, that is why MP in hindsight says he should've included that as part of the agreement, just as Tate did.

[CodyWanKenobi]

But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

[rumborak]

How do you know upfront how long you're gonna stick with a band?

I think if MP *really* wanted to, he could play the material (after all he has played several DT songs since his departures), and DT would care little. It's more of a logistical problem for MP than anything else.

[bosk1]

But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.

[CodyWanKenobi]

But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.

The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.

[Setlist Scotty]

But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.

The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.

That is correct - playing the 12 Step Suite in it's entirety. But your previous post strongly implies that MP had a problem with them playing *any* part of the 12SS, which is not true. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. And I think that's what Bosk is referring to.

[CodyWanKenobi]

But seriously though, the point is, don't release something with your band if you want them to never be able to play if in the event of your departure. Save shit like that for a solo album or whatever. If the song was released by Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd or whoever, then Dream Theater, or Pink Floyd, etc should have every right to play it.

Actually, that is NOT the point at all.  He never says DT should not have the right to play any of it, and he has never tried to prevent them from doing so.  It is you who is missing the point of what Mike was saying and taking the quote to a place he never intended.

The fact that he brought up the 12 step suite to use as an example while talking about the Queensryche situation indicates a desire for them to never play it in it's entirety. He even clearly states he'd be heartbroken if they did.

That is correct - playing the 12 Step Suite in it's entirety. But your previous post strongly implies that MP had a problem with them playing *any* part of the 12SS, which is not true. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. And I think that's what Bosk is referring to.

Oh, yes, I was referring to it in it's entirety. But my point is, each of those songs were released by Dream Theater - not Mike Portnoy. So if Dream Theater wanted to play those songs in their respective order, then there should be no problem with it legally. I can understand him being upset about it on a personal level, but I'd find it rather immature if he had decided to try to take legal action like in this whole Queensryche situation. That's all I was saying.

[KevShmev]

I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.

[nikatapi]

I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.

Aside from that, i don't think that they would really want to do it, i'm not sure if even the fans would want it.

[BlobVanDam]

I think most would agree that, yes, Dream Theater has the right to play any or all of the 12SS, but the point is that playing all of it straight through (regardless of whether you personally want to see it or not) could be considered a bit disrespectful considering what it clearly means as a whole to their ex-bandmate.  And I am sure they know that.

Aside from that, i don't think that they would really want to do it, i'm not sure if even the fans would want it.

I don't think you can generalize for the fans. I think a lot of people would want to see it, myself included. I agree that DT probably wouldn't play it as a whole out of respect regardless of that though, but I'm glad they've continued to play the individual songs, because they are still DT's songs at the end of the day, and it would be a loss if they considered them off-limits.

[nikatapi]

Ι didn't want to generalize, but i believe that in a context of a DT show, playing the whole thing would be something that would make the setlist very one-sided. And it's not like they would play something that is universally praised, there are people who don't like Repentance or TSF, so that was my point. It's just too much time focused on a piece that is not very coherent and popular as a whole, at least from the opinions i've read so far.

[rumborak]

I think one can definitely generalize that playing it wouldn't be shoe-in like, say, playing ACOS. How large the percentage of people would be who wouldn't like seeing the whole thing, is hard to say. But on here it has already been met with mixed feelings. It would be a gamble, that's for sure.

[BlobVanDam]

I think people greatly overestimate how much DTF represents the general fanbase. I think in practice, it would go down very well with the crowd.

[KevShmev]

I think the first three songs would probably go over well with live crowds, but Repentance would suck the life out of it, and The Shattered Fortress would get the "Okay, can we get something different now?" reaction, especially since it didn't get much of a reaction at either show I saw back in April.

[rumborak]

If they could whittle it down to a 30-minute epic, I think it could be rock solid. But yeah, with all the self-referencing between the songs, it would start to get boring about 30 minutes in.

[Zook]

If they could whittle it down to a 30-minute epic, I think it could be rock solid. But yeah, with all the self-referencing between the songs, it would start to get boring about 30 minutes in.

I've yet to experience this.

[PetFish]

I feel like I need to get on my soapbox here for a minute.

I'll always hold hope that one day Portnoy will play with the guys again for a special show or shows but here's the problem I'm having that I'd hoped fiercely would go away as time went on:

MP just doesn't know how to let anything go.  He just always seems to take shots at anyone when he has the chance.  Backhanded "compliments".   Passive-aggressive statements.  All that crap.

Look at a recent one where someone asked him about doing another LTE (live or album(?)) and he said (paraphrasing) "three of us want to but apparently one person doesn't want to look back and reminisce about the past" or something along those lines.  Rather than say "we're looking into it and I hope we can get together" he just has to say something like this and then leave us, the "fans", to speculate on wtf is going on.

I don't get it.  It's also like he's upset that the guys aren't talking shit about him so that makes him feel like he has to talk more and more shit to try and get some kind of negative reaction from them.

The thing that people always praise MP for is that he's open and honest and isn't afraid to speak his mind and "free speech" and all that.  That is a total bullshit cop-out.  Just because you CAN say whatever the hell you want, doesn't mean you SHOULD.  Some people just don't have that filter and it's unfortunate but inexcusable.

Both sides could have helped each other with their careers and held on to some great times and future reunions, but instead we get this, and it would be just as awkward now as it was 5 years ago if MP was on stage with DT after the separation all because MP just can't let things go.  This is why I'm not holding my breath for any kind of reunion cuz people can't heal when their scars are constantly being picked at.

Ok, I'm done, I'll always trust to hope, but it seems to have forsaken these lands.

[Madman Shepherd]

 

Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER

then....

Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.

[Anguyen92]

I checked that retweet and saw a lot of snarkiness from the responses (pretty much expected) though I liked this response.

many would add Kevin Moore to that but Mike was happy to continue after he quit. Cant blame DT for continuing

[bl5150]

Any chance the first tweet might have been angling for that exact response re DT ? 

[Grizz]

Aw fuck  !

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

He seems to have such an immature mentality about the situation. The cheap little jabs and passive aggressive attitude is the kind of stuff I expect to see from broken up freshman couples in high-school, not a well respected and successful prog musician... It's almost like he doesn't take any responsibilty at this point for leaving.

You don't see Mangini liking or reposting comments that say "the REAL Berklee has Mike Mangini teaching there"

He also commented "Congrats guys!" when Haken beat DT in the Prog Sphere HoF competition of Facebook... Which is fine, but he didn't say anything to anybody else in any round throughout the whole competition until Haken beat DT (as far as I know).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

lolpornoy

[PetFish]

Somehow, this just doesn't quite say it.  We need some new breed of facepalm graphic that can encompass the current ludicrous level of MPs facepalm status.

[PetFish]

MP has really gone off the deep end.  Maybe it's all part of his self-fulfilling rock icon delusion where he puts himself so far above anyone else he basically thinks he's God... and can create and destroy bands at-will and after 25 years all us regular folk will "get it" as the master plan it was this whole time and how far ahead of our time he was musically and blah blah blah.

Why do other artists even want to work with such a delusional egomaniac?  As soon as he decides it's over, it's over, and then the bridges get burned down and he moves on.  There is another organism on this planet that behaves in such a way... a virus.

[Grizz]

You know, I love MP, and think that most of the shit this forum said on his personality and actions was way overboard...
But I can't defend this. He went full retard with that retweet.

[The Dark Master]

Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER


Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.

Y'know, I read comments like this, and I have to wonder; what kind of response is he expecting to get from saying shit like this?  Does he honestly think that the majority of the Dream Theater fanbase is going to say "Fuck yeah!  You said it, Mike!"?  The last album with Portnoy sold 40k copies in it's first week, the first album without MP sold 36k (and the most recent one sold the same), so that means that 9/10ths of Dream Theater fans were willing to buy a Portnoy-less DT album blind.  So while there may be that 1 in 10 disgruntled DT fan who thinks that Mike was the band (and to be honest, I think it is way less then even 1 in 10), the simple fact is that most fans just moved on.

I think this is where Mike's whole thing about viewing the fans as his friends, as well as having been the biggest fan of his own band, really becomes a problem.  Because he seems to view the fans as his friends, he expects to be able to speak his mind without consequence, and he also expects the fans to have his back out of blind loyalty.  Futhermore, because he was the biggest fan of DT during his time in the band, it seems like he assumes that his opinions about DT are the predominant opinions of the fanbase as a whole.  But the simple truth of the matter is that it just doesn't work that way.  Bands change lineups all the time, and while there are those occasional splits that end up breaking careers, more often then not, the fans just get over the loss and move on.  Dream Theater fans got over the loss of Kevin Moore, it seems they have gotten over the loss of Mike Portnoy as well.

If, in the mind of Mike Portnoy, Dream Theater became a completely different band after he left, fine, but he needs to realize that most DT fans would disagree, and he comes across as being petty, passive-aggressive, and more then a little bit self-centered whenever he makes comments like this. I don't expect him to get over not being in DT overnight, but the sooner he is able to let go of the past, the better things will be, for him and for everyone else.

[Madman Shepherd]

Lots of bickering over my Floyd comments. OK, I'ill meet the Gilmour fans half-way and say "real" Pink Floyd is BOTH Gilmour/Waters TOGETHER


Very much like "real" Dream Theater is Portnoy/Petrucci.

Y'know, I read comments like this, and I have to wonder; what kind of response is he expecting to get from saying shit like this?  Does he honestly think that the majority of the Dream Theater fanbase is going to say "Fuck yeah!  You said it, Mike!"?  The last album with Portnoy sold 40k copies in it's first week, the first album without MP sold 36k (and the most recent one sold the same), so that means that 9/10ths of Dream Theater fans were willing to buy a Portnoy-less DT album blind.  So while there may be that 1 in 10 disgruntled DT fan who thinks that Mike was the band (and to be honest, I think it is way less then even 1 in 10), the simple fact is that most fans just moved on.

And also, record sales in general went down during that time so DT might not even lost any fanbase really.  They have expanded their stage show and I'm assuming have put a lot of extra money into it.   Attendance figures are steady for the most part.  There was the second leg of the ADTOE tour when they only pulled in 700 in Ohio but that was also the third time they had played in Ohio in the last year and it was a smaller market than usual.

But you were on point with everything you said.  I would add that I would LOVE to hear MP just own up to what he has said.  I would actually respect the hell out of it.  I wouldn't agree with it but I would at least respect it.  He always goes off on a tangent saying, "I wear my heart on my sleeve and I always shoot straight.  People are going to criticize me no matter what I say." 

So first of all, no he doesn't shoot straight because he will retweet or like something on facebook and then say, "I have a right to retweet what I want!"  Nobody of course says he doesn't.

Second, people are not going to criticize him no matter what he says.  He just had a tweet about Indian food and....thats cool, I guess.  I like Indian food.  HE HAS NO RIGHT TO EAT IT....k, sorry, I got carried away.  I guess I really will criticize him for anything. 

He even responded to a post I made on his forum recently and it was very bizarre to be "called out" by a guy I respected for a long time (and bought $100 bucks of cover band DVDs from in the last 6 months).  He couldn't fathom that nothing he has done since he left DT has interested me and called me a tough customer (which I guess it is good that he acknowledged I am a customer...and have given him a shitload of money).  He also listed all of the bands he has been in or played with since he left DT...I guess I should have responded that Bigelf and Fates Warning weren't "real" and don't count.