Octavarium VS Systematic Chaos

[Kotowboy]

I feel like I might have done this topic before but hey ho !

Seeing as how each album is 8 tracks and is sorta sequenced the same - more or less. It might be fun to compare them track by track.

I've bolded which track I prefer.


1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 ( or as a whole against Octavarium if you wish )

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.



+ Octavarium Vs In The Presence Of Enemies.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

SC across the board except PA > R. Tie between 8V and ITPOE.

[Zook]

TROAE and ITPOE PT. 1 are sort of tied, but otherwise, every song on Octavarium is better than those on SC.

[Kotowboy]

TROAE and ITPOE PT. 1 are sort of tied, but otherwise, ever song on Octavarium is better than those on SC.

We disagree on everything.


but not today.





not today

[Zook]

Ew, cooties.

[Kotowboy]

Ew, cooties.

[bosk1]

This is an..."interesting" way of comparing the albums.  But I'll bite.

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 (Tough call.  This is really close.  But ITPOE gets the nod by a hair)

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken (Not close at all.  One of my least favorite songs against one of my favorite.)

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion  (Fairly close, but not as close as the first one.  And Constant Motion just slays.)

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night  (Not close.  I like IWBY, but TDEN is a lot more fun.)

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance  (Not close.  Panic attack is a favorite.  Repentance as a great idea that just doesn't work as well as it should.)

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War  (Not close.  I like Never Enough well enough, but Prophets of War is one of the few DT songs that I actively dislike.)

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls  (And TMOLS is not far behind Prophets.)

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2  (Not close.  ITPOE2 is good.  But Octavarium is my #3 DT song.) 

[Kotowboy]

So Bosky - you're 50% split ! Interesting ! I've always seen SC as a kind of darker counterpart to Octavarium's lighter upbeat atmosphere.

The album sequencing is almost the same...

[bosk1]

They are both albums that have some of my most favorite and least favorite DT songs on them.  But if I could take the 8 that I chose from this and put them on one album, it just might be close to being my favorite DT album of all time.

[CharlesPL]

Prefer 8V #6 in my ranking, SC is least

[drod1985]

I think Systematic Chaos gets more crap than it should, and I find myself listening to it far more often that 8va. In your format, song for song, I pick SC every time. The only close call is Panic Attack - Repentance.

[TheCountOfNYC]

The Root of All Evil > In the Presence of Enemies Part 1
The Answer Lies Within < Forsaken
These Walls < Constant Motion
I Walk Beside You > The Dark Eternal Night
Panic Attack > Repentance
Never Enough > Prophets of War
Sacrificed Sons < The Ministry of Lost Souls
Octavarium > In the Presence of Enemies Part 2



Octavarium > In the Presence of Enemies

[The Presence of Frenemies]

They are both albums that have some of my most favorite and least favorite DT songs on them.  But if I could take the 8 that I chose from this and put them on one album, it just might be close to being my favorite DT album of all time.

If you axed TDEN through PoW and put 8V (the song) in their place, SC'd be my favorite (track order aside, because having 8V in the middle of SC would be odd).

[jammindude]

My #1 album vs my #12 (soon to be #13) album. 

No contest.   8V wins on every song with the possible exception of IWBY vs TDEN.     I'd give the nod to TDEN...but only just barely.   If it were the live version of IWBY from Score, then it would go the other way.   It was amazing how much the crowd got behind that song...totally brought it to a whole new level. 

[TL]

It's interesting for me; the first DT album I bought (8vm) vs the first one I anticipated as a fan (though I was actually introduced to them with LSFNY).
With Octavarium, there was still that excitement of having been introduced to an amazing band who I hadn't heard anything like before, whereas with SC there was the excitement of brand new material from a band I'd been listening to a lot.

Comparing both, while I enjoyed the heck out of both, I liked Octavarium more. I still have memories of my friends and I listening to it constantly in the summer of 2005. Looking back on both, Octavarium has also aged a lot better for me. I still like SC, but I love Octavarium.

Track by track like in the OP, Octavarium also comes out ahead.
Root of All Evil > ITPOE pt1
Answer Lies Within > Forsaken
These Walls = Constant Motion (maybe a slight edge to These Walls)
I Walk Beside You > Dark Eternal Night
Panic Attack > Repentance
Never Enough = Prophets of War
Sacrificed Sons < The Ministry of Lost Souls
Octavarium >>> ITPOE pt2 (Nothing against ITPOE, but I friggin love Octavarium).

[BlobVanDam]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 - TROAE, but both are very cool.

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken - Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion - These Walls, but I love both.

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night - TDEN RAWKS

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance - Panic Attack

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War - PoW

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls - SS

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2 - Octavarium

That's 5/8 in favour of Octavarium. NUGGET!

I rank Octavarium a bit higher than SC, so it doesn't surprise me it came out on top, but both are underrated albums.

[Rodni Demental]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.

Strange comparisons, from this point of view I'm kinda surprised I ended up being 50/50.

[?]

Octavarium all the way, except #2, #6 and maybe #1. Both albums are at the very bottom of my ranking, though.

[hefdaddy42]

Seems interesting, I guess, but I shall refrain.  I don't like either album all that much.

[SuperTaco]

The only thing that MIGHT crack my top 10 on SC is ITPOE part 1. On the other hand... the title track on 8VM is my #1 song. For me, there's no comparison unless I take both epics out of the picture. After that, it becomes more even.

[BlackInk]

I'd say Systematic Chaos is my favorite of the two, although Octavarium is only a tiny bit below.

[Prog Snob]

The Root of All Evil < In the Presence of Enemies Part 1
The Answer Lies Within > Forsaken
These Walls > Constant Motion
I Walk Beside You < The Dark Eternal Night
Panic Attack < Repentance
Never Enough < Prophets of War
Sacrificed Sons < The Ministry of Lost Souls
Octavarium > In the Presence of Enemies Part 2

The toughest choice was between ITPOE Part 2 and Octavarium.   8V has two of my least favorite DT songs, Panic Attack and Never Enough. It also has one of my favorites, Octavarium.  I would definitely choose 8V over ITPOE as a whole. However, it looks like I favor more songs from SC.

I think my biggest gripes are:
Constant Motion sounds too much like Metallica
Never Enough sounds too much like Muse, and the lyrics are just poor.
The beginning of Sacrificed Sons takes too long.
Forsaken is too poppy.

Highlights:
Repentance has one of JP's best solos.
8V is a masterpiece
ITPOE Part 2   
The solo in TMOLS is one of my favorites.

That being said, I think 8V gets the slight edge over SC. 

[Jamesman42]

Super bored, sick at home so I'll bite.

The Root of All Evil > In the Presence of Enemies Part 1
The Answer Lies Within > Forsaken
These Walls > Constant Motion
I Walk Beside You < The Dark Eternal Night
Panic Attack > Repentance
Never Enough > Prophets of War
Sacrificed Sons > The Ministry of Lost Souls
Octavarium > In the Presence of Enemies Part 2


Yeah. BCSL sucks imo. 8vm is near my favorite. TDEN is fun though, so it edges out IWBY.

[Outcrier]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1
2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken
3. These Walls VS Constant Motion
4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night
5. Panic Attack VS Repentance
6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War
7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls
8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2

No contest imo.

[RuRoRul]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 ( or as a whole against Octavarium if you wish )

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.

Octavarium slightly ahead of In The Presence Of Enemies overall too.

[Crow]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 ( or as a whole against Octavarium if you wish )
Easily, TRoAE is in my top 5.

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken
Pretty easy too, I like TALW and Forsaken is meh.

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion
I like both but These Walls is way better.

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night
TDEN is in my bottom 5 so YEAH.

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance
Both very good songs though.

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War
Muse-off, lol. NE by a huge margin though.

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls
Again both good.

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.
Easy cheesy.

[bl5150]

Seems interesting, I guess, but I shall refrain.  I don't like either album all that much.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

1. The Root of All Evil vs. In the Presence of Enemies Part I
Both great openers, but the latter edges it out for me just a bit.

2. The Answer Lies Within vs. Forsaken
Not particularly close, this one. TALW is alright but I don't care for it an awful lot, and while Forsaken is no gem, it's a little more on the memorable side.

3. These Walls vs. Constant Motion
Constant Motion is killer, but there's a nice charm to These Walls that I've grown to appreciate more as of late.

4. I Walk Beside You vs. The Dark Eternal Night
Bar the somewhat silly, over the top moments on TDEN, it's a pretty rad song. I never cared for IWBY that much at all.

5. Panic Attack vs. Repentance
Honestly, both share the same issue with going on longer than they probably should, but PA's got more memorable moments dotted throughout, though I don't mind Repentance either.

6. Never Enough vs. Prophets of War
Yeah, yeah, not the most original opinion here, but POW is definitely a bottom DT song for me, while NE I like decently enough.

7. Sacrificed Sons vs. The Ministry of Lost Souls
SS is the worst offender on either of these albums when it comes to songs going on for too long. It just meanders around without accomplishing much, aside from the nice riff here and there. TMOLS has the rather out-of-place instrumental section in there holding it back, but it's got some really soulful melodies and instrumentation as well.

8. Octavarium vs. In the Presence of Enemies Part II
No contest. 8V is a top 3 DT song, and while ITPOE is great, it doesn't hold a candle to it.

[Mosh]

I don't even have to think about it. Every song on Octavarium destroys every song on SC.

[Cable]

1. Root Of All Evil < The Presence Of Enemies (whole)

2. The Answer Lies Within > Forsaken

3. These Walls = Constant Motion (push)

4. I Walk Beside You > The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack > Repentance

6. Never Enough < Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons > The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium < In The Presence Of Enemies (whole)

This actually turned out as I expected. Although it may only be one song more for 8V, many of the choices were close where SC won. If I had to separate ITPOE, both would tie or lose to their respective rivals.  But some, like PA v. Repentance, and SS v. TMOLS, it is WAY in the 8V direction (still some cool parts).

Disclosure, SC is my least favorite DT album.

[Dublagent66]

SC has 7 songs and 8VM has 8 songs.  Track by track is not really a fair comparison.

Here's how they stack up in my album ranking.

8.  8VM
9.  SC

[ReaPsTA]

ITPOE Pt. 1      >      TROAE      (Very close though)
Forsaken         >      TALW       (Not close)
CM               <      TW         (Also not close)
TDEN             <      IWBY       (IWBY is fine for what it is)
Reptentance      >      PA         (More substance)
POW              >      NE         (POW has the cool disco section)
TMOLS            >      SS         (TMOLS is very underrated)
ITPOE Pt 2.      <      8vm        (I mean, come on)

SC - 5
8vm - 3

The issue in really comparing the albums is how good 8vm's title track is.  Overall, SC is the better album, but 8vm (the song) might be better than everything on SC combined.

[LCArenas]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 ( or as a whole against Octavarium if you wish )
This was quite hard, but I find myself listening to TROAE more.
2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken
Yeah, TALW isn't quite a good song for me. Forsaken is miles ahead.
3. These Walls VS Constant Motion
CM is actually a good song, but it lacks the power and passion These Walls has.
4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night
IWBY isn't the zenith of Dream Theater's songwriting talent but it sure is a far better listen than Grotesque Creatures Battle.
5. Panic Attack VS Repentance
Not a single shade of doubt on this one. Panic is my Second favorite song in this album, after Octavarium.
6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War
I'll call it a draw. Both songs are completely indifferent to me. If I totally had to choose one I'd choose Prophets of War. At least the beginning of the song is nice.
7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls
Ministry is my favorite song off SC. I like it far more than Sacrificed Sons, which I barely listen to anymore.
8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.
Because of course it would.

[Prog Snob]

Where is the poll for this?

[Nearmyth]

This is definitely interesting, I kind of like track by track comparisons like this.

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 (by far)

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance (by far)

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2. (by far)

I actually prefer Octavarium as an album, both aren't too high on any list for me though.