5 years later, was Portnoy right?

[As I Am]

I miss Portnoy and I think DT was a better band  with him. Miss his compositions, his playing, his live energy and the contact he had with the fans.

I liked ADTOE but think DT12 is their worst album.

Live they are still a great band to see, but I hate the click. Now they lack spontaneity.

Wish he was still in the band.

Agree with "almost" everything.

[Orbert]

Album sales, concert attendance, grammy nominations

None of these really have anything to do with why they parted ways, so why even make it a part of the conversation.

They're part of the conversation because it's not just about the parting of ways, but whether or not Mike was "right", and each of these are ways of measuring Dream Theater's success since the split.  Some may not consider any or all of them to be proper ways of measuring success, but they are objective at the very least.  People can argue all day about which albums are better or worse or average, before or after the split, etc.  Album sales and concert attendance tell you how "big" a band is.

[Tick]

Nonsense thread. The last 2 albums have been amazing imo.

[Stadler]

Album sales, concert attendance, grammy nominations

None of these really have anything to do with why they parted ways, so why even make it a part of the conversation.

They're part of the conversation because it's not just about the parting of ways, but whether or not Mike was "right", and each of these are ways of measuring Dream Theater's success since the split.  Some may not consider any or all of them to be proper ways of measuring success, but they are objective at the very least.  People can argue all day about which albums are better or worse or average, before or after the split, etc.  Album sales and concert attendance tell you how "big" a band is.

I think Orbert is 100% right.  Because we all know One Direction is a better band than Dream Theater.

I kid, of course, and I don't think anyone would argue that they aren't at least a more financially successful band than DT, but it really does matter what the measure is.  I would personally love to ask Mike about this some day.  Some were looking at AMob as a stab towards that arena rock success (ala Disturbed, Staind, A7X, though for someone as smart and savvy as Mike, I can't believe that he would've put all his eggs into something as hokey as AMob) but really nothing he's done since was blatantly with an eye toward Grammy's and 100,000 seat metal festivals.   

[ariich]

Album sales, concert attendance, grammy nominations

None of these really have anything to do with why they parted ways, so why even make it a part of the conversation.

They're part of the conversation because it's not just about the parting of ways, but whether or not Mike was "right", and each of these are ways of measuring Dream Theater's success since the split.  Some may not consider any or all of them to be proper ways of measuring success, but they are objective at the very least.  People can argue all day about which albums are better or worse or average, before or after the split, etc.  Album sales and concert attendance tell you how "big" a band is.

Problem is, we don't have any kind of counterfactual. We've no idea what album sales and crowd sizes would have been like had MP been in the band.

[Orbert]

Album sales, concert attendance, grammy nominations

None of these really have anything to do with why they parted ways, so why even make it a part of the conversation.

They're part of the conversation because it's not just about the parting of ways, but whether or not Mike was "right", and each of these are ways of measuring Dream Theater's success since the split.  Some may not consider any or all of them to be proper ways of measuring success, but they are objective at the very least.  People can argue all day about which albums are better or worse or average, before or after the split, etc.  Album sales and concert attendance tell you how "big" a band is.

I think Orbert is 100% right.  Because we all know One Direction is a better band than Dream Theater.

I kid, of course, and I don't think anyone would argue that they aren't at least a more financially successful band than DT, but it really does matter what the measure is.  I would personally love to ask Mike about this some day.  Some were looking at AMob as a stab towards that arena rock success (ala Disturbed, Staind, A7X, though for someone as smart and savvy as Mike, I can't believe that he would've put all his eggs into something as hokey as AMob) but really nothing he's done since was blatantly with an eye toward Grammy's and 100,000 seat metal festivals.   

I wasn't using sales to compare Dream Theater to some other band, and I wasn't arguing that more popular means better.

My point is that people can argue all day whether the two post-Portnoy albums are better or worse, but those are just opinions.  Did they sell more?  Do they now sell more concert tickets than they used to?  Those are more objective measures of how popular Dream Theater is, and in that sense how well they are doing.  It has nothing to do with comparing them to some other band; it's about comparing Dream Theater now to Dream Theater five years ago.  That was original question.

[RJ86]

I, personally, shut off DT after SDOIT, and for quite some time. I was very happy with the 6.5 (gotta include Change of Seasons in there) albums. Heard Train of thought.. ugh.. Then I bought Octavarium and pulled it out after 2 songs (I seriously never finished listening to the whole thing). I Didn't want to hear any more. The band was heading in a "too heavy" direction for me. Being a fan since WDADU, I was turned off by the too heavy sound.

Now, I have gone back through the catalog in the past several months, and safe to say Portney leaving has breathed some sort of new life into the band. The last 2 releases have far exceeded the previous 4. I can't get into the depth, lyrics and all that. I just know what I personally like and where they were heading was no it. DT12 and ADTOE have jumped past SDOIT, for me.
And, seriously, how is Breaking All Illusions not everyones favorite song behind Metropolis and Learning to Live? 

[Rodni Demental]

Then I bought Octavarium and pulled it out after 2 songs (I seriously never finished listening to the whole thing). I Didn't want to hear any more. The band was heading in a "too heavy" direction for me.

You stopped listening after The Answer Lies Within, because they were getting too heavy?

[Cool Chris]

We've no idea what album sales and crowd sizes would have been like had MP been in the band.

My guess is pretty minimal, as bands on a 5 year break tend to not sell a lot of albums or concert tickets.

[Cyclopssss]

Personally, I miss Mike, because of Mike. I miss his personality, his showmanship, his gearing up the crowd.
Do I think DT is a better, tighter unit since he left? Yes, I actually do. I think Luna Park sucked, but Breaking the Fourth Wall was fantastic.
It's just something I have to live with, but he's making records and touring with Transatlantic, Winery Dogs, The Neal Morse Band, Flying Colour and now Metal Allegiance.
Mike's doing his thing. Mike's being Mike, and I like that. Also, Mangini is not Mike. Mangini might be a machine, Mike has groove. 

[erwinrafael]

And Mangini has no groove. Here we go again. 

[Kotowboy]

One of my biggest griped with Mangini is that he admits he composes solos to be an exercise and not to be musical.

That's why I can never enjoy his solos.

[Darkstarshades]

I think MM and MP are gay for each other.

[cramx3]

One of my biggest griped with Mangini is that he admits he composes solos to be an exercise and not to be musical.

That's why I can never enjoy his solos.

Pretend you never heard him say that? 

[Zydar]

I can never enjoy drum solos in general. I find them boring, no matter who does them.

[BlobVanDam]

I can never enjoy drum solos in general. I find them boring, no matter who does them.

Likewise. Not a knock on any particular drummer, it's just not something I like to listen to solo. In fact, drum solos are my #2 greatest fear.

[bl5150]

I can never enjoy drum solos in general. I find them boring, no matter who does them.

Likewise. Not a knock on any particular drummer, it's just not something I like to listen to solo. In fact, drum solos are my #2 greatest fear.

I would agree 99% of the time but I do recall thinking that Alex Van Halen's solo on the 3 tour was the highlight of the night (and that was a great gig despite the album)...........  I normally go for a piss during drum solos.  A really cool calypso inspired solo with horn sounds piped in - it was quite amazing.

[Darkstarshades]

I can never enjoy drum solos in general. I find them boring, no matter who does them.

Likewise. Not a knock on any particular drummer, it's just not something I like to listen to solo. In fact, drum solos are my #2 greatest fear.

And what's your greatest fear?

[cramx3]

Not a big fan of drum solos either, but the time MP did the drum solo at progressive nation with the other drummers was actually a highlight of that show.  It really got the crowd going and a non DT fan that was with us was blown away by that and he even said that was the best part of the show.

[bl5150]

And I forgot Satchel......... 

https://youtu.be/S5YwcaXSGu4?t=252

[BlobVanDam]

I can never enjoy drum solos in general. I find them boring, no matter who does them.

Likewise. Not a knock on any particular drummer, it's just not something I like to listen to solo. In fact, drum solos are my #2 greatest fear.

And what's your greatest fear?

#1 - Death
#2 - Drum solos
#3 - Losing power in the middle of saving a file

[bl5150]

I was backing in sunlight.

[Lumiukko]

Mike Portnoy = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXV1kDeorWo

[gmillerdrake]

Mike Portnoy = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXV1kDeorWo

     

[erwinrafael]

One of my biggest griped with Mangini is that he admits he composes solos to be an exercise and not to be musical.

That's why I can never enjoy his solos.

What? Where did he say that? The interview I just posted in the Mike Mangini thread says the opposite.

The ones he say are not musical are the exercise videos he post online, and then in some parts of the 20 minute plus solos he do in drum clinics. But for shows, he always intends them to be musical, especially the solos he did in his later years.

The BTFW and LALP solos are very musical.

[Kotowboy]

I can't bear Mangini's solos. The only thing about him I don't enjoy. I just find them to be like a clinical exercise in compound time and polyrhythms.

It's not like " check out this sweet groovy tribal tom thing i'm doing " or anything that sounds nice to the ears like that.

It's more like " Check this out - i'm playing 17 with my right side and 9 with my left side "

It just bores me as a drum solo.

[Madman Shepherd]

I can't bear Mangini's solos. The only thing about him I don't enjoy. I just find them to be like a clinical exercise in compound time and polyrhythms.

It's not like " check out this sweet groovy tribal tom thing i'm doing " or anything that sounds nice to the ears like that.

It's more like " Check this out - i'm playing 17 with my right side and 9 with my left side "

It just bores me as a drum solo.

I feel the opposite because Mangini does have a lot of groove with in his drum solos.  He has some cool rhythms, cool beats, and sure some crazy exercises.  I would say at least 50% of drum solos bore me but Mangini's are not among them. 

I also have to say I love the cool tribal tom thing you speak of which is why I love the Ina-Gadda-Da-Vida drum solo or even a Peter Criss solo, the only decent thing Peter Criss does.  Even though they're simplistic, they are pleasing. 

[Kotowboy]

I love Jimmy Chamberlin for that stuff.

[KevShmev]

Drum solos mostly boring the snot out of me, too.  Even on the last few tours, Neil Peart's solos boring me, and I used to genuflect to his solos (not that I think any less of him; I am just bored by solos now).

Also, Stadler, that is not fair to say that JLB has taken "low shots" at Portnoy since the latter left the band, since a) JLB's comments were fairly harmless, and b) Portnoy took way worse shots at him were they were in the band together (a far worse offense).  Considering the criticism Portnoy used to level at him, fair or not, JLB has taken the high road.

[rumborak]

I agree with people that drum solos are usually mind-numbingly boring. However, something like this I will watch all the way through: https://youtu.be/_quRW8IKZ5Q

[bosk1]

I agree with people that drum solos are usually mind-numbingly boring. However, something like this I will watch all the way through: https://youtu.be/_quRW8IKZ5Q

Didn't like the rest of the music at all (which is not surprising), but that is a really cool video as it forced me to focus on the drumming, which was just...incredible.  Very technical, but also just a really nice groove and feel to it.  Fantastic.  I really just wish he played for a different band. 

[Madman Shepherd]

I love Jimmy Chamberlin for that stuff.

That guy is a monster on drums!

[ResultsMayVary]

The Mangini drum solos were something that were cool on his first world tour with the band (like when Portnoy did them on the I&W world tour with the band's first major world exposure). But that's really the only situation I see where they can do a drum solo and it doesn't take away from the rest of the show. It's basically "We have a new drummer and he's going to show what he can do." They have so many songs they could play that the drum solo now-a-days could easily be replaced with a 4-6 minute tune.

And I'm having a hard time thinking how DT12 is their worst album (back to a comment earlier on this page). I hate to remind you that the original album recording of WDADU exists.

[TheSilentHam]

I still enjoy the drum solo, but what I'd absolutely love to see now is a myung/mangini jam-out duet

[bosk1]

The Mangini drum solos were something that were cool on his first world tour with the band (like when Portnoy did them on the I&W world tour with the band's first major world exposure). But that's really the only situation I see where they can do a drum solo and it doesn't take away from the rest of the show. It's basically "We have a new drummer and he's going to show what he can do."

I generally agree.  But I don't mind a short solo tied into a song.  For example, I thought the short solo spot he had on the last tour in the middle of Enigma Machine worked well.  It fit well in that part of the song, and it wasn't so long that it took the place of an entire song.  I am fine with stuff like that.