5 years later, was Portnoy right?

[jammindude]

Maybe someone should do a mashup of the two.  Then I could be that? 

That's a little like my personality IRL anyway.   Like a clean cut, non-swearing, non-drug version of "The Dude"...

[Calvin6s]

Take your old "The Dude" avatar and put a Wal-Mart price tag in the corner.  Solved.

[jammindude]

 

The Dude "rolled back"

[jammindude]

Thanks to Setlist Scotty for the mashup avatar!!

[Orbert]

That's... disturbing.

[hefdaddy42]

I normally keep avatars turned off anyway, so whatever.

But yeah, that image is frightening.

[jammindude]

Well, I think it's brilliant, and I LOLed heartily.   Thank you, Scotty!!

[Dreamer]

Re the original question I think the last 2 albums are their best!

[Dukeman678]

I do know that if Mr. Portnoy were there still, as fans, we would have been treated to one hell of a 2015, you know the 30th anniversary.  To me, a new album in 2016 misses the mark.  Call me ungrateful or to "Stop living in the past man", but I expected alot this year from my favorite band.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah when Metallica celebrated their 30th - they played The Fillmore for four nights and played every song they'd ever recorded as Metallica ***. Got Jason Newsted and Dave Mustaine back and

played with them again and had a ton of guest musicians to play with them too.

DT played one song from every album.




*** Ok maybe not EVERY song - but I think they played every song that hadn't been played live before then.

[kaos2900]

I honestly could care less that the band didn't do much for their 30th anniversary.  The biggest reason being they aren't in the touring phase. Second, I don't want them to rush an album out in 2015 just so it coincides with their 30th. Third, I just turned 31 and didn't become a fan until around 2000 so I'm sure the anniversary means more to the band than it does to most fans. I'm sure IF MP never quit then there could have been something cool out of ytse jam but honestly it doesn't bother me.

And as far as Metallica goes. They should have played a show every day of the year considering the can only put out an album once a decade. I'll care about them again when they focus on making music and not just playing it.

[TAC]

I honestly could care less that the band didn't do much for their 30th anniversary.  The biggest reason being they aren't in the touring phase. Second, I don't want them to rush an album out in 2015 just so it coincides with their 30th. Third, I just turned 31 and didn't become a fan until around 2000 so I'm sure the anniversary means more to the band than it does to most fans. I'm sure IF MP never quit then there could have been something cool out of ytse jam but honestly it doesn't bother me.

And as far as Metallica goes. They should have played a show every day of the year considering the can only put out an album once a decade. I'll care about them again when they focus on making music and not just playing it.

Agree on both counts.

[Robo4900]

If Portnoy was still in the band, we'd probably have got a YtseJam release(Or maybe a full version of Live In Tokyo or something), the 30th anniversary would be worked into the main tour, and that's about it.

To be honest, all we really lost when Portnoy left was the YtseJam releases. The rest of the band have taken his responsibilities nicely, and Portnoy is happy to be working on his billions of different projects. So ultimately, it's all turned out fine.

[KevShmev]

I do know that if Mr. Portnoy were there still, as fans, we would have been treated to one hell of a 2015, you know the 30th anniversary.  To me, a new album in 2016 misses the mark.  Call me ungrateful or to "Stop living in the past man", but I expected alot this year from my favorite band.

Stop being ungrateful and living in the past.

[ToT-147]

Stop being ungrateful and living in the past.

But, now, seriously: exactly..

The last time we had to wait three years for a new album was after SFAM, and the result was 6DoiT, so I wouldn't be so frustrated in advance for something like that..

I do know that if Mr. Portnoy were there still, as fans, we would have been treated to one hell of a 2015, you know the 30th anniversary.  To me, a new album in 2016 misses the mark.  Call me ungrateful or to "Stop living in the past man", but I expected alot this year from my favorite band.

Yeah when Metallica celebrated their 30th - they played The Fillmore for four nights and played every song they'd ever recorded as Metallica ***. Got Jason Newsted and Dave Mustaine back and

played with them again and had a ton of guest musicians to play with them too.

DT played one song from every album.

NE..

[KevShmev]

Even saying three years is a stretch, because SFAM came out near the end of 1999 (late October) and 6DOIT the beginning of 2002 (January), so it was more like a little over two years.  Same thing here.  It's not a big deal, especially considering they are taking longer to make this album and they did do a short tour leg this past summer.

[Madman Shepherd]

If Portnoy was still in the band, we'd probably have got a YtseJam release(Or maybe a full version of Live In Tokyo or something), the 30th anniversary would be worked into the main tour, and that's about it.

To be honest, all we really lost when Portnoy left was the YtseJam releases. The rest of the band have taken his responsibilities nicely, and Portnoy is happy to be working on his billions of different projects. So ultimately, it's all turned out fine.

Agree.  I still wish there was more Ytsejam stuff but I'm pretty satisfied with everything else they've done so I can live with that. 

[r0cken]

I think it's always right for a band to take a break. Even though as a fan I hate the idea.
It would be healthy for them to rest and recharge, and/or tinker with their side projects for five years, and then get back together again, with fresh ideas.

I loved ADToE, but the latest album does nothing for me. It sounds like a generic rehash of everything they did in the past. It just doesn't excite me anymore. I hate when that happens with any of my favorite bands. And it usually happens.

So, I'm all for breaks. Portnoy was right.

[Kotowboy]

The last time we had to wait three years for a new album was after SFAM, and the result was 6DoiT, so I wouldn't be so frustrated in advance for something like that..

That was 2 years and 3 months to be precise .

[Kotowboy]

I loved ADToF

A Dramatic Turn Of Flans ?

[r0cken]

 
Fixed.

[Stadler]

If Portnoy was still in the band, we'd probably have got a YtseJam release(Or maybe a full version of Live In Tokyo or something), the 30th anniversary would be worked into the main tour, and that's about it.

To be honest, all we really lost when Portnoy left was the YtseJam releases. The rest of the band have taken his responsibilities nicely, and Portnoy is happy to be working on his billions of different projects. So ultimately, it's all turned out fine.

I don't agree with this at all.   Not even close.   James was all over about how "everyone was going to step up and take over to cover for Mike", but there must be a shit ton of behind the scenes stuff going on, because I'm not seeing any of it.   A twat every couple month from JP does not equate to "stepping up and covering for what Portnoy did".   When is the last time they did a cover show?  When is the last time they dropped in a nugget or two on a setlist?   When is the last time there was something like the "release a cover every two weeks until the album is out"? 

And I didn't even mention the Ytsejam releases (though that too). 

[hefdaddy42]

When is the last time they did a cover show?  When is the last time they dropped in a nugget or two on a setlist?   

Those are obviously things that were important to MP, who made the setlists, and the rest of the band never really cared for them all that much.  So why WOULD they do them?

When is the last time there was something like the "release a cover every two weeks until the album is out"? 

To be fair, they only did this once anyway, for BC&SL, when they recorded a disc's worth of covers in the studio.

A thing, again, which was definitely MP-driven.

Not sure why they should be held accountable for not doing stuff that only Portnoy wanted to do, now that he is no longer there to urge them to do it.

[Cyclopssss]

Yeah, it sure looks like MP was full of exciting ideas and the rest, wel....sort of went along with it because, well, Mike, really. Once he was gone, no one seems too eager to 'step up' and go the extra mile for the fans.

It sort of makes DT just 'one of those bands'  now for me.

[ToT-147]

I think it's always right for a band to take a break. Even though as a fan I hate the idea.
It would be healthy for them to rest and recharge, and/or tinker with their side projects for five years, and then get back together again, with fresh ideas.

No one can know for sure if that break would have meaning a breather from the band, or an unnecesary recess that could've ended up blocking them on a compositional level, or even separating the band for good.. (I know this latter posibility is a extreme one, but there's always that risk with bands taking a break, that could last 'only' five years, but also six, seven, etc..)

So I don't believe in the equation "break+go back together after being separated for so long=fresh ideas".. And I'm saying this, but also the band has said it.. They work better being (and I must ironically use here MP's words) in constant motion..

Yeah, it sure looks like MP was full of exciting ideas and the rest, wel....sort of went along with it because, well, Mike, really. Once he was gone, no one seems too eager to 'step up' and go the extra mile for the fans.

It sort of makes DT just 'one of those bands'  now for me.

Yeah, maybe, but that's making THEM happy now.. Shouldn't we be happy for that?..

[Zydar]

Yeah, it sure looks like MP was full of exciting ideas and the rest, wel....sort of went along with it because, well, Mike, really. Once he was gone, no one seems too eager to 'step up' and go the extra mile for the fans.

It sort of makes DT just 'one of those bands'  now for me.

Sadly, this for me too.

[Stadler]

When is the last time they did a cover show?  When is the last time they dropped in a nugget or two on a setlist?   

Those are obviously things that were important to MP, who made the setlists, and the rest of the band never really cared for them all that much.  So why WOULD they do them?

When is the last time there was something like the "release a cover every two weeks until the album is out"? 

To be fair, they only did this once anyway, for BC&SL, when they recorded a disc's worth of covers in the studio.

A thing, again, which was definitely MP-driven.

Not sure why they should be held accountable for not doing stuff that only Portnoy wanted to do, now that he is no longer there to urge them to do it.

One, because they explicitly said they would, and two, the comment was something along the lines of "there's nothing different except for the Ytsejam releases", when there clearly is, even if there is a rational explanation for them.

Look, I don't expect them to copy all the things that MP did.  I agree they are their own band now.  But I don't understand why someone who held those things dear has to put up with nonsense like the sarcasm that just followed my post because I'm not on board with it (that's how I took Cyclopssss post, even though that is EXACTLY how I feel).  I've not once disparaged DT for their choices (well, that isn't 100% accurate) and I'm still on their fan forum, and I'm still buying their records.  But they used to be a unique band out of 100's I listen to, and now they are one of many bands I listen to. 

Why does it have to be all (MP FANBOY!) or nothing (He was a egomaniacal douchebag who had to go and good riddance!)?  I can miss those things and note them for the record without it being a blasphemy. 

[Orbert]

Most bands don't do a lot of stuff like that, and it was definitely MP who drove it when he was with DT.  Regardless, it was something that many fans had come to appreciate and something which set DT apart from the crowd, so at the very least, it's disappointing to a lot of fans that this did not continue.  I didn't specifically get a vibe that all this stuff would continue, but after Mike left, statements from JP, JLB and the others did seem to imply that the others would step up a bit and (at least partially) fill the gap.

DT is now just like any other band.  Tour, make an album, take a break.  Or maybe it's make an album, tour, take a break.  Post on Facebook or Twitter once in a while, if they think of it.  A lot of that "extra" stuff that Mike did gave the band a unique personality, and that's all gone.

[hefdaddy42]

When is the last time they did a cover show?  When is the last time they dropped in a nugget or two on a setlist?   

Those are obviously things that were important to MP, who made the setlists, and the rest of the band never really cared for them all that much.  So why WOULD they do them?

When is the last time there was something like the "release a cover every two weeks until the album is out"? 

To be fair, they only did this once anyway, for BC&SL, when they recorded a disc's worth of covers in the studio.

A thing, again, which was definitely MP-driven.

Not sure why they should be held accountable for not doing stuff that only Portnoy wanted to do, now that he is no longer there to urge them to do it.

One, because they explicitly said they would, and two, the comment was something along the lines of "there's nothing different except for the Ytsejam releases", when there clearly is, even if there is a rational explanation for them.

Look, I don't expect them to copy all the things that MP did.  I agree they are their own band now.  But I don't understand why someone who held those things dear has to put up with nonsense like the sarcasm that just followed my post because I'm not on board with it (that's how I took Cyclopssss post, even though that is EXACTLY how I feel).  I've not once disparaged DT for their choices (well, that isn't 100% accurate) and I'm still on their fan forum, and I'm still buying their records.  But they used to be a unique band out of 100's I listen to, and now they are one of many bands I listen to. 

Why does it have to be all (MP FANBOY!) or nothing (He was a egomaniacal douchebag who had to go and good riddance!)?  I can miss those things and note them for the record without it being a blasphemy.

It certainly doesn't have to be all or nothing.  I have no idea why anyone would think that.  It's really immature.

MP certainly used to communicate directly to the fanbase about upcoming projects more often than the other guys, and that hasn't picked up nearly as much as many fans would have liked.  I have it on good authority that this is on purpose for the upcoming album - the band is basically on lockdown mode, not releasing any info, and that is their purpose at the moment.

And the lack of Ytsejam releases can certainly be seen as a sore spot, but MP has all the old "stash" (although most non-live performance stuff has already been released), so the only stuff that could be released by the current band would be new live performances - which wouldn't make much sense, because they have issued official live releases for both albums/tours.  Any Ytsejam release would just be repeated material.

Frankly, for every fan who liked the cover songs during live performances, I would wager that there were more who would rather have had another song by Dream Theater - the band they had paid to see.  Not to mention the performances of entire cover albums, especially when they weren't announced beforehand.  If it was an album you happened to like, then lucky you.  If not, then you got fucked for half a concert - money down the drain.

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.

However, on the other hand, we now have impeccably performed concerts, with few if any flaws, and they are still incredibly entertaining.  The band is firing on all cylinders musically, even with the drawbacks I listed.

In the end, its all opinions, and there is no right or wrong.  But a lot of the "drawing lines" crap is ridiculous.

[pcs90]

Frankly, for every fan who liked the cover songs during live performances, I would wager that there were more who would rather have had another song by Dream Theater - the band they had paid to see.  Not to mention the performances of entire cover albums, especially when they weren't announced beforehand.  If it was an album you happened to like, then lucky you.  If not, then you got fucked for half a concert - money down the drain.

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.

However, on the other hand, we now have impeccably performed concerts, with few if any flaws, and they are still incredibly entertaining.  The band is firing on all cylinders musically, even with the drawbacks I listed.

I agree 100% with all of this.
If I was at a show, and they covered a whole album, even if I liked that album I'd be irritated because that's not the stuff I paid to see. The only cover off BCSL I listen to is "Odyssey", because I like their version much better. Well, that and the instrumental Rush medley from the 90s, that's cool. Really the only things I miss about MP are the live variations on songs (extended sections, improvised jams, etc), the variable set-lists, and the sound of his kits (not his playing, but the drums and cymbals sound much better than MM's to me).

[hefdaddy42]

I actually like the covers disc from BC&SL better than the album of BC&SL.

But it was a bonus feature, and I knew what I was getting when I got the deluxe version, rather than just the regular CD.

[MarkFitDT]

When is the last time they did a cover show?  When is the last time they dropped in a nugget or two on a setlist?   

Those are obviously things that were important to MP, who made the setlists, and the rest of the band never really cared for them all that much.  So why WOULD they do them?

When is the last time there was something like the "release a cover every two weeks until the album is out"? 

To be fair, they only did this once anyway, for BC&SL, when they recorded a disc's worth of covers in the studio.

A thing, again, which was definitely MP-driven.

Not sure why they should be held accountable for not doing stuff that only Portnoy wanted to do, now that he is no longer there to urge them to do it.

One, because they explicitly said they would, and two, the comment was something along the lines of "there's nothing different except for the Ytsejam releases", when there clearly is, even if there is a rational explanation for them.

Look, I don't expect them to copy all the things that MP did.  I agree they are their own band now.  But I don't understand why someone who held those things dear has to put up with nonsense like the sarcasm that just followed my post because I'm not on board with it (that's how I took Cyclopssss post, even though that is EXACTLY how I feel).  I've not once disparaged DT for their choices (well, that isn't 100% accurate) and I'm still on their fan forum, and I'm still buying their records.  But they used to be a unique band out of 100's I listen to, and now they are one of many bands I listen to. 

Why does it have to be all (MP FANBOY!) or nothing (He was a egomaniacal douchebag who had to go and good riddance!)?  I can miss those things and note them for the record without it being a blasphemy.

It certainly doesn't have to be all or nothing.  I have no idea why anyone would think that.  It's really immature.

MP certainly used to communicate directly to the fanbase about upcoming projects more often than the other guys, and that hasn't picked up nearly as much as many fans would have liked.  I have it on good authority that this is on purpose for the upcoming album - the band is basically on lockdown mode, not releasing any info, and that is their purpose at the moment.

And the lack of Ytsejam releases can certainly be seen as a sore spot, but MP has all the old "stash" (although most non-live performance stuff has already been released), so the only stuff that could be released by the current band would be new live performances - which wouldn't make much sense, because they have issued official live releases for both albums/tours.  Any Ytsejam release would just be repeated material.

Frankly, for every fan who liked the cover songs during live performances, I would wager that there were more who would rather have had another song by Dream Theater - the band they had paid to see.  Not to mention the performances of entire cover albums, especially when they weren't announced beforehand.  If it was an album you happened to like, then lucky you.  If not, then you got fucked for half a concert - money down the drain.

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.

However, on the other hand, we now have impeccably performed concerts, with few if any flaws, and they are still incredibly entertaining.  The band is firing on all cylinders musically, even with the drawbacks I listed.

In the end, its all opinions, and there is no right or wrong.  But a lot of the "drawing lines" crap is ridiculous.

Not for the first time you are 100% right.

[Setlist Scotty]

Most bands don't do a lot of stuff like that, and it was definitely MP who drove it when he was with DT.  Regardless, it was something that many fans had come to appreciate and something which set DT apart from the crowd, so at the very least, it's disappointing to a lot of fans that this did not continue.  I didn't specifically get a vibe that all this stuff would continue, but after Mike left, statements from JP, JLB and the others did seem to imply that the others would step up a bit and (at least partially) fill the gap.

DT is now just like any other band.  Tour, make an album, take a break.  Or maybe it's make an album, tour, take a break.  Post on Facebook or Twitter once in a while, if they think of it.  A lot of that "extra" stuff that Mike did gave the band a unique personality, and that's all gone.

Unfortunately, soooo true. DT's still my favorite band, but they no longer stand head and shoulder above the rest like they used to.

MP certainly used to communicate directly to the fanbase about upcoming projects more often than the other guys, and that hasn't picked up nearly as much as many fans would have liked.  I have it on good authority that this is on purpose for the upcoming album - the band is basically on lockdown mode, not releasing any info, and that is their purpose at the moment.

That's great for this album, but we're going on 5 years now and since MP's left there has never been anything remotely close to the communication with the fan base that DT did. So fine, if they want to do that for this specific album (as they similarly did for SFaM), great, but that doesn't excuse the fact that they haven't done a lot more for the 2 previous albums.

And the lack of Ytsejam releases can certainly be seen as a sore spot, but MP has all the old "stash" (although most non-live performance stuff has already been released), so the only stuff that could be released by the current band would be new live performances - which wouldn't make much sense, because they have issued official live releases for both albums/tours.  Any Ytsejam release would just be repeated material.

If they'd rotate the setlists as in the old days (which I know you bemoan later in your post), then they'd have something more to put out there for the fans. But really, they could put out the demos, early versions or "Making Of releases" forADoTE and the s/t, but they haven't bothered to do that either.

Frankly, for every fan who liked the cover songs during live performances, I would wager that there were more who would rather have had another song by Dream Theater - the band they had paid to see.  Not to mention the performances of entire cover albums, especially when they weren't announced beforehand.  If it was an album you happened to like, then lucky you.  If not, then you got fucked for half a concert - money down the drain.

While I disagree, I follow what you're saying for the cover album; only thing is that it was a fairly well established fact of when it was going to be done, never mind the fact that they did play another 90 minutes or more of their own material. There's plenty of bands out there that would only do a 90 minute headlining set, so I look at that as a bonus. In any case while there are probably more fans that are not into the covers than otherwise, I'd wager there's still a higher percentage of fans that do enjoy them than you probably give credit for, altho we'll never know either way.

However, on the other hand, we now have impeccably performed concerts, with few if any flaws, and they are still incredibly entertaining.  The band is firing on all cylinders musically, even with the drawbacks I listed.

Impeccably performed, but overly-rehearsed to the point where they could perform the show in their sleep, especially with the click track being used. So I don't see that as a positive the way you do.


quote author=hefdaddy42 link=topic=44348.msg2013107#msg2013107 date=1443112718]
In the end, its all opinions, and there is no right or wrong.  But a lot of the "drawing lines" crap is ridiculous.
[/quote]
But unfortunately, that drawing of lines exactly what happens far more often than not, especially when people like Stads or I speak up and don't agree with the masses on this board.

[Madman Shepherd]

Yeah, it sure looks like MP was full of exciting ideas and the rest, wel....sort of went along with it because, well, Mike, really. Once he was gone, no one seems too eager to 'step up' and go the extra mile for the fans.

It sort of makes DT just 'one of those bands'  now for me.

Some of my favorite bands are "one of those bands" so I have absolutely no problem with that.  The only things that changed for me are that now other members of the band are doing far more interviews, for some reason Jordan decided not to do the quick 20 second updates from the studio with his iPhone (but on the plus side we don't have to hear him say "I'll see you....on the rooooad"), and we don't get more Ytsejam releases, although we did get a free live album. 

Other than that, I still buy everything they release (or get it for free thanks to their generosity), love hearing updates but don't live and die for them, I see them once per tour leg, and I don't have to get pissed off that they played a song I wanted to hear the night before but not at the show I was at. 

I like them just as much if not more than I did five years ago. 

[King Postwhore]

Mike's OCD was great for us fans. I wonder because his life was DT and in the end, he was burnt out.