*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[jakepriest]

*snip*

If you consider this a satirical troll post it's actually kinda funny. 

[Kilgore Trout]

Even if I accepted the insults targeted at the band, even if I took your opinions-stated-as-facts and even if I could get over the implications that DT should be less accessible and have failed to do so; even if I ran with all of that, I'd still have to question your knowledge of Steven Wilson.

Actually, you can : I don't like Steven Wilson's music that much, and don't know all his albums for that very reason. I've heard pretty much everything he's done after 2000 with Porcupine Tree or as a solo artist, though.

And insults at the band... They're filthy rich and they do whatever they like. Don't worry, they don't care about me not liking their album.

[Chino]

Calvin?

[CoT67]

*snip*

If you consider this a satirical troll post it's actually kinda funny. 

I love the appeal to "freedom of speech". Like, you sign up on a Dream Theater fan forum for the explicit reason of bashing them? That's just hilarious 

[thosava]

I have a question about the title of the album. I have only listened once, while reading the lyrics. Why is the album named The Astonishing? In the end the lyrics say: eternally, in harmony our lives will be astonishing again. What do they mean by this?

[Shadow2222]

And insults at the band... They're filthy rich and they do whatever they like. Don't worry, they don't care about me not liking their album.

So you say about one of the most fan-friendly major bands out there (even after Portnoy's departure).

Regardless, it doesn't foster good discussion. Notice the little tangent we are on.

Anyways, on topic, one of my favorite tracks is A New Beginning. That is really close to being a perfect song in my book.

[senecadawg2]

Ignoring the belligerence, I neither love nor hate this album at the moment. In fact, I've only listened to the first disc so far. A couple times, I should say, but still only the first disc. Since that alone is so much to swallow, I'm not going to worry about moving on to the second act until I'm comfortable and familiar with the music, characters and plot of the first.

I do think the first disc is really good. Maybe largely because I did a good job of tempering my expectations, but I'm really impressed. Is there cheese? Maybe some filler? Maybe not enough JMX? More of the same from Mangini, as was mentioned somewhere about page two of the thread? I dunno--I think it might suffer from all of that to a certain degree. Overall though, I think the overall experience overwhelms any of those gripes. Honestly, I think this is the album I was hoping DT12 would be.

[Schurftkut]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/438pam/ama_hey_i_am_john_petrucci_from_dream_theater_ask/

[senecadawg2]

Even if I accepted the insults targeted at the band, even if I took your opinions-stated-as-facts and even if I could get over the implications that DT should be less accessible and have failed to do so; even if I ran with all of that, I'd still have to question your knowledge of Steven Wilson.

Actually, you can : I don't like Steven Wilson's music that much, and don't know all his albums for that very reason. I've heard pretty much everything he's done after 2000 with Porcupine Tree or as a solo artist, though.

You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

ETA: I'm done on that topic. This is DT we're talking about. If you want to make bizarre comparisons to SW and his numerous projects, which I suspect no one is going to agree with, then you'd probably be better served doing so in the SW thread.

[Jinx]

3:28 of A Savior in the Square. Just as Gabriel is about to show them his gift... then scene freeze and spotlight on Gabriel as he sees Faythe for the first time. Magical.

[nikostheater]

Just finished my first listen to the album..
Verdict:ASTONISHING!
Easily one of their best work in my opinion!
Great music,fantastic production,fantastic performance from all but i think the stand outs are JLB,JR,JP.
I LOVE the way the album flows.
There some things in the story that i need to clarify though because iTunes in their infinite wisdom neglected to include a booklet with the digital download..

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I have a question about the title of the album. I have only listened once, while reading the lyrics. Why is the album named The Astonishing? In the end the lyrics say: eternally, in harmony our lives will be astonishing again. What do they mean by this?

As I understand it, they're gonna start making music once again. The NOMACs shut down and Lord Nafaryus saw the error of his ways.... All of this in true Disney fashion! *I personally love the ending so hard!*

[thosava]

Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that 

[emtee]

Ravenskill could be the most moved I have even been by a DT song. Damn. That piano almost makes this old man cry. The whole
song just reeks with emotion.

[Mladen]

So much fantastic ideas all over the place, this will be an insanely tough album to digest. However, some things are obvious - there are plenty of wonderful recurring themes on the album, Jordan and John truly make a fantastic team when it comes to crafting the melodies, and of course, James LaBrie is the star of the album, he's all over the place and it's so much fun to listen to him alone.

As far as cons are concerned... I'm still getting used to the combination of piano and vocals being so prominent on a Dream Theater album. I sure love the sound of it, but some of the melodies didn't leave an impression on me. Yet. We'll see.

I've only given the album a few spins, but I'll still head over to "pick your favorite songs" thread to share my initial favorites.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that 

'The Incredible' or 'The Wonderful' didn't seem like proper album names.

[Kilgore Trout]

You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

Wait, what? This is not about diging out. My phrase was simply meant to say that an artist like Steven Wilson pretty much always sounds more gritty than DT here, nothing more (and I could have chosen someone else). If Steven Wilson wrote some embarasingly cheesy songs with PT or as a solo artist that I don't know about, it doesn't really change anything. And if what you have in mind is Blackfield, yes, it's cheesy, but if you're trying to dig out everything Wilson wrote, you're totally missing the point.

[Kotowboy]

------------------------------------------------------------------

My CD will arrive tomorrow.

[SeRoX]

My first impression is I can love this album more than two last.

Other than that, MM is, uhmm not that good and I still can't hear the bass. These are the negative things. Overall, i can place it in my top 5.

[Kotowboy]

This album is getting trashed on the Metallica forum of course.

" Not enough solos "

" Too many ballads "

" It's BORING ".

" Not enough F words and blastbeats " < - - i made that one up but I extrapolated.

[BlobVanDam]

Who cares what another forum for a different band thinks?

[emtee]

I wish there was a way I could speak directly to the band and just tell them how fucking amazing I think this album is. I NEVER
thought I would feel this way about DT as far as emotional content. This album reaches down there where Pink Floyd dwells.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

This album is getting trashed on the Metallica forum of course.

" Not enough solos "

" Too many ballads "

" It's BORING ".

" Not enough F words and blastbeats " < - - i made that one up but I extrapolated.

Metallica forum lol

[rab7]

Yeah i got that, but i don't understand how lives can be astonishing? It doesn't seem like the proper adjective for that 

I googled "Astonishing" and I got, "extremely surprising or impressive; amazing"

The idea is that the people being allowed to make music again will introduce some more amazing and impressive things in their life. How did you feel the first time you ever listened to DT, or realized you loved it? That's what they'll finally be allowed to feel again.

As for why it's called 'The Astonishing,' as I understand it, The Astonishing is the process of Nafaryus realizing the true power of music and allowing it back into the world.

[Kilgore Trout]

So you say about one of the most fan-friendly major bands out there (even after Portnoy's departure).

I don't see the link. They won't read this thread. It's not like I'm waiting for them at the end of a show to say to them that their album sucks.

Regardless, it doesn't foster good discussion. Notice the little tangent we are on.

But what discussion is even possible, except for some fans loving the album and saying "that part is great, that part is amazing, etc."- which is fine, but barely a discussion? It's an opinion thread. There isn't much more to say.

If anyone want to discus musical aspects of the album from a technical point of view (harmony, melody, rhythm, arrangements, thematic development, etc.), I can do that anytime you want. But the rest is pretty much just stating opinions (and saying how some opinions are bad, and others good), and not a discussion.

That being said, don't worry, I won't say anything bad anymore about the album, because it obviously hurts some people's feelings.

[Kotowboy]

I won't say anything bad anymore about the album, because it obviously hurts some people's feelings.

their album sucks.

[senecadawg2]

You can't dig your way out of this one. You simply can't.

Wait, what? This is not about diging out. My phrase was simply meant to say that an artist like Steven Wilson pretty much always sounds more gritty than DT here, nothing more (and I could have chosen someone else). If Steven Wilson wrote some embarasingly cheesy songs with PT or as a solo artist that I don't know about, it doesn't really change anything. And if what you have in mind is Blackfield, yes, it's cheesy, but if you're trying to dig out everything Wilson wrote, you're totally missing the point.

You're speaking in nonspecific terms without defining them. First you said that nothing on this album is as "hardcore" as SW? What do you even mean by "hardcore"? Is that the same thing as "gritty"? Is that gritty and/or hardcore in regards to the production? The music? The song-writing?

I don't have a clue as to what you're trying to say. So when I say "dig out", I mean dig yourself out of a poorly-explained position which most are likely to disagree with you on anyways.

[rab7]

Back to the topic, does anyone else think the way James sings "Faythe I treasure more than all the diamonds in my crown" is the most beautiful thing he's ever done?

[Kilgore Trout]

This, along with the fact that you pointed out MMs drumming says to me you just miss Portnoy. And that's fine. But it's got to start dawning on people that there's 99% chance he's not coming back.

It has been pretty obvious to me for sometime. Portnoy brought the fun in DT, but also the taste for technicality and metal, three things that are pretty much gone now. This has little to do MM, I think, but with the fact that like I've said, the band that wrote The Dance of Eternity doesn't exist anymore. That how it goes...

And the metal parts are laughable? "Day after day, night after night..."

That is a good example : that part is laughable, but in a bad b-movie way. It's a failure, but when it's not taken seriously, it's fun. I don't hear parts that can be taken that way on the Astonishing (although you might say there are some B-movie aspects).

[bosk1]

Kilgore Trout, you can say what you want to about the album, provided it is not couched in insults like what I quoted above.  Not everyone likes the album, and that's cool.  In the 200+ page thread that preceded this one, there was plenty of good discussion, including great comments from those who did not like the songs they had heard.  That is all fine.  Whether you want to voice your dislikes constructively or keep them to yourself is up to you, but either of those options are allowed and do not break the forum rules.  But let's keep the discussion in the thread album-focused rather than turning into a debate about what you can and cannot post, or debates about who knows more about Wilson.  That is not what this thread is about.  (and that is a general comment to EVERYONE, not just Kilgore Trout)  Thanks.

[BlobVanDam]

Back to the topic, does anyone else think the way James sings "Faythe I treasure more than all the diamonds in my crown" is the most beautiful thing he's ever done?

That one's great. I'd also like to nominate Act of Faythe - I have always felt alone.

[Art]

Only 2 complete spins here, since this was a really busy week.

I really like the album, i haven´t read the lyrics/story yet, but as a musical piece it´s really good. Probably my favorite DT album since TOT.

As for the sounds/production, i see an improvement since the last 2 records, especially in the drums. It´s not perfect but it´s a lot better than it was on DT12.

The performances: As everybody said, JLB really shines here, a fantastic job. JP and JR delivered awesome performances, too. Theres great riffs, solos and melodies everywhere. MM did a fine job, keeping things going even if the music itself asks for simpler drums. JM is kinda buried in the mix, though  (or maybe it´s my earphones).

As for the favorite songs, it´s a little early for me, but i can say that i like The Gift Of Music, Lord Nayfarius, A New Begining and Our New World a lot. But i think the record works well as a whole.

[Kotowboy]

Kilgore Trout, you can say what you want to about the album, provided it is not couched in insults like what I quoted above.  Not everyone likes the album, and that's cool.  In the 200+ page thread that preceded this one, there was plenty of good discussion, including great comments from those who did not like the songs they had heard.  That is all fine.  Whether you want to voice your dislikes constructively or keep them to yourself is up to you, but either of those options are allowed and do not break the forum rules.  But let's keep the discussion in the thread album-focused rather than turning into a debate about what you can and cannot post, or debates about who knows more about Wilson.  That is not what this thread is about.  (and that is a general comment to EVERYONE, not just Kilgore Trout)  Thanks.

Even if I outright hated this album - i'd never just post " this album sucks ".

[Kilgore Trout]

You're speaking in nonspecific terms without defining them.

Yeah, like everyone is using specific terms in this topic.

First you said that nothing on this album is as "hardcore" as SW?

That is not even what I wrote.

I don't have a clue as to what you're trying to say. So when I say "dig out", I mean dig yourself out of a poorly-explained position which most are likely to disagree with you on anyways.

I thought I stated my genre impressions (and nothing more) in words and sentences that were simple enough to understand, like everyone else did.

[ASacrificedSon]

The Astonishing?
I just listened to it today and......it was great!
My thoughts: I miss those long songs. At least one 11 minute would've done it for me. Other than that, I don't really care about solos and such, but I find the story to be phenomenon. I honestly like the story more than Metropolis Part 2's cheesy story.