*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[Adami]

Anything is possible with enough burritos

[Lonk]

This is the most problematic part of your inquiry. No musical taste makes anyone "smarter, more educated/enlightened" than another. My jazz-preferring coworker is no smarter than my metal-loving brother just because he (subjectively) prefers jazz.

I don't think that's what Stadler said. He stated "we can't say" if they are smarter, more educated or whatever.

But to answer Stadler's question:

Here's the question: do the results of the group - whatever the group is - change that from subjective to objective?  Meaning, if you have 1,000,000 (or whatever number, as long as it's statistically relevant) people, and they rate the DT albums, on average, a 7, and they rate the Bon Jovi records (or Kiss, or Selena Gomez, doesn't matter who) records an 8, are they now objectively better?  Or does the standard stay at "just more people like them"?  We don't know the makeup of the 1,000,000, so we can't say that some are smarted, or more educated, or more enlightened... they are who they are. 

I would say the results is still "more people like X over Y". I look at it similar to food, you like what you like and just because the masses enjoy eating something, it doesn't automatically translate that you (the individual) will. What can be objectively determine is the content of the music itself.

[Stadler]

This is the most problematic part of your inquiry. No musical taste makes anyone "smarter, more educated/enlightened" than another. My jazz-preferring coworker is no smarter than my metal-loving brother just because he (subjectively) prefers jazz.

That's something that I unfortunately see a lot of with prog fans in particular. Not saying this is you or anyone here, but at large they tend to feel special and smarter/enlightened musically compared with other music fans (and I actually know someone irl who won't even give Dream Theater a try because they are not "real" prog from the 70's).

Musical tastes don't make anyone better than anyone else. It's ALL subjective.

I certainly agree with you, but I can't say that's true of everyone here.  There ARE people that think because they listen to Rush (Neal Peart's lyrics!) over Van Halen ("Do it till we're black and blue!"), or Dream Theater over Justin Timberlake that they ARE more smart, or more enlightened.    Again, I don't agree with that at all but I was sort of heading off that line of inquiry; I know it's wrong, because I'm the smartest person I know and I love Kiss for god's sake. 

[Glasser]

As some of you know, I'm FASCINATED by this topic. 

So - and I don't say this to break your stones, but to set up the next question - no one person can determine if a work of art is "quality" or not; you're just saying that to all the albums of the world, you LIKE Dream Theater albums more. That's fine (I do too). 

Here's the question: do the results of the group - whatever the group is - change that from subjective to objective?  Meaning, if you have 1,000,000 (or whatever number, as long as it's statistically relevant) people, and they rate the DT albums, on average, a 7, and they rate the Bon Jovi records (or Kiss, or Selena Gomez, doesn't matter who) records an 8, are they now objectively better?  Or does the standard stay at "just more people like them"?  We don't know the makeup of the 1,000,000, so we can't say that some are smarter, or more educated, or more enlightened... they are who they are.

[Stadler]

One of my favorite movies of all time.  Ever.

[hefdaddy42]

One of my favorite movies of all time.  Ever.

My mudda hung me on a hook once.

ONCE.

[Glasser]

  . I agree!

[TAC]

What movie?

[hunnus2000]

To hear the thoughts of the group.  We've gone round on this for as long as I've been here; I'm staunchly in the "there is no "good" or "great" only "I like it"", but this seemed like a slightly different take.

I don't KNOW the answer, I just know what MY answer would be (it doesn't).  I believe only the artist can say if a work is "good" or not, based on how close the final outcome came to their vision.

Art, is subjective and always has been. I don't trash songs or judge lyrics because I know it's just my opinion so another man's trash.............I had a friend in High School who loved Devo which I couldn't stand but hey, to each their own.

Now if we're talking about something like sports and GOATS, well that's measurable. For instance, I won't argue TB being the GOAT of QB's but I can argue that Lynn Swan should not be in the HoF.

[hefdaddy42]

What movie?

Johnny Dangerously

[Setlist Scotty]

Art, is subjective and always has been.

I dunno. I think it's safe to say this is objectively crap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqpqZEIa8g

[brakkum]

I dunno. I think it's safe to say this is objectively crap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqpqZEIa8g

I dunno, that audience looks THRILLED

[Adami]

I dunno. I think it's safe to say this is objectively crap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIqpqZEIa8g

Is that a cover of a Ross Geller song?

[Awaken]

ROMAN MORONI IS ON DTF?!

[TAC]

Johnny Dangerously

Thank you.  I saw that when it came out.

[hefdaddy42]

Thank you.  I saw that when it came out.

THIS IS FARKIN' WAR

[Dream Team]

I still spin this album regularly, or at least some of it every week. I think my final evaluation of it is; it's maybe the "least offensive" DT album ever. There's never really a song or a section where I think "this is bad, I need to skip". Yes Invisible Monster is pretty boring but it has some nice melodies in that 2nd set of verses. Even my favorite album, I&W, has a song like Another Day that maybe  leans a little to the cheesy side. Literally every other album between Images and View has either songs or sections that I tend to skip.

This can also be interpreted as View being their "safest" album but regardless, I like it a lot and probably the one thing that would have improved it for me is JP playing more classic style metal riffs instead of all that simplistic chugging. The other 3 instrumentalists are on top of their game and JLB does the best he can with the vocal melodies he has to work with.

[Jamesman42]

"Safe" is a great descriptor.

[YngVai]

Very much how I feel about it. It's never blown me away, and I was maybe a bit underwhelmed at it's release, but it's a smooth enough ride from start to finish that it's gotten more spins from me than probably any other MM-era release.

[gzarruk]

It's funny how opinions vary. To me, it's the best of the MM albums.

[WilliamMunny]

It's funny how opinions vary. To me, it's the best of the MM albums.

After many listens (more than any other MM release other than ADTOE), I'd say this has settled into a comfortable 2 spot behind ADTOE (which I rate very highly overall). My issues, as with virtually every Portnoy release, are mostly to do with the drums and production overall, but the songs are, for the most part, interesting and have continued to grow on me.

[hefdaddy42]

It's funny how opinions vary. To me, it's the best of the MM albums.

I don't know if it's the best, but no way does it feel "safe" to me.  I don't even know what that means in this context.

[Setlist Scotty]

After many listens (more than any other MM release other than ADTOE), I'd say this has settled into a comfortable 2 spot behind ADTOE (which I rate very highly overall). My issues, as with virtually every Portnoy release, are mostly to do with the drums and production overall, but the songs are, for the most part, interesting and have continued to grow on me.

Portnoy or Mangini? 

But yeah, I'm in agreement with the assessment that AVFtTotW is the best of the MM-era albums, with d/t a close second.

[WilliamMunny]

Portnoy or Mangini? 

But yeah, I'm in agreement with the assessment that AVFtTotW is the best of the MM-era albums, with d/t a close second.

Yeah, brain fart there...definitely meant "every MM release"

[Jamesman42]

I don't know if it's the best, but no way does it feel "safe" to me.  I don't even know what that means in this context.

At least for me, "safe" means there isn't anything memorable here, relative to other DT albums.

[hefdaddy42]

At least for me, "safe" means there isn't anything memorable here, relative to other DT albums.

That's just crazy talk.

[Jamesman42]

The apple doesn't fall far from the god.

[Adami]

I call an album safe when the band doesn't do much in the way of risks or big swings and sticks to what they already know their fans will like.

[The Letter M]

I call an album safe when the band doesn't do much in the way of risks or big swings and sticks to what they already know their fans will like.

I suppose this makes The Astonishing an album that is unsafe, or dangerous? 

-Marc.

[Adami]

I suppose this makes The Astonishing an album that is unsafe, or dangerous? 

-Marc.

In concept and a few other ways, very much so. I've said I respected the attempt even if I didn't love the execution.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

After many listens (more than any other MM release other than ADTOE), I'd say this has settled into a comfortable 2 spot behind ADTOE (which I rate very highly overall). My issues, as with virtually every Portnoy release, are mostly to do with the drums and production overall, but the songs are, for the most part, interesting and have continued to grow on me.

That's interesting. I personally think it's their best-produced album even going back into the Portnoy era. It's probably the one aspect of the album that I praise most.

[Dream Team]

Yeah, I guess I'm a little curious as to what "production issues" refers to.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I guess I'm a little curious as to what "production issues" refers to.

I'm with you. I hear this all the time, "the production sucks" and for the life of me I'm just not hearing it. 

The ONE thing I can say about the sound of the DT records is a problem I have generally with heavy music in the last ten years or so (maybe more now) and that's that it's often too DENSE.  I listen to Led Zeppelin music, early Kiss, stuff like King Crimson, even AC/DC and it's heavy, but there's space in there, it breaths.   You listen to something like Hells Bells, heavy AF, but you can hear EVERYTHING.  It's crystal clear.  The frequencies of the instruments aren't all fighting each other.   Early DT was like that as well.  I'll have to go back and listen to see when it changed, but it HAS changed.  Now, it just seems that everything is so DENSE. 

[crystalstars17]

Yeah, I guess I'm a little curious as to what "production issues" refers to.

3rd this. I don't get it either.

[Schurftkut]

the choosing of the sounds, the way they are recorded and put in the mix is a big part of production.